What's the difference between these arbitration bourts and the Jewish Beth Din? Answer? Not a lot. EDL are a bunch of fucking racists and hypocrites. This years blackshirts.

"Nuneaton, headquarters of Britain’s first official Sharia court, the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal." Alarm bells should be ringing for anyone who reads this sentence. Why is it that the English government seems so hell bent on allowing minority groups to slowly seize control of the country? Could you ever imagine a Middle Eastern country allowing Christians to set up their own courts? Of course not, so why do we allow it? Someone's religious beliefs isn't the issue. People should be allowed to follow whatever religion they choose. But what I don't agree with is changing English laws to suit those religious beliefs held by minority groups in a Christian country. When in Rome...

Interesting article that shows it's not all black and white. They are a bunch of all sorts. Confused maybe? Al Muhajiroun are certainly a bunch of fucking racists.

Al Muhajairon are a bunch of racists and morons. The EDL are no different. oh and btw many middle eastern countries allow people to set up Beth DIn's and ecclesiastical courts ..

I've remained completely impartial on the whole EDL issue. I've got mates who are involved with it and I've got mates who feel threatened by it. The people I know who have been to demonstrations have always argued that the media don't paint a fair picture of the type of people who attend and the agenda behind it, and I can see from this article that they've got a point. It's much easier for the papers to take photos of a few lads with skinheads and stamp 'BNP' all over it than actually address the complex issue that the EDL raises. Whether you agree or not, there is a large section of the ordinary public who feel increasingly threatened by militant Islam, just shouting 'racist' at them and banning them from demonstrating isn't going to do anything to stop the spread of animosity from either side. This article has shown to me that the media are just as misinformed about the EDL as the EDL are about Islam.

I find it deeply ironic that the EDL's founder is drawn from Irish Catholic stock. Clearly he is not old enough to remember when our community was afforded pariah status in Britain for terrorist actions supposedly carried out in our name. "Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them".

I think I've more chance of making Welsh the official language of Britain than Sharia law being enforced here.

Yea racists? I guess our PM is then? Walked round wembley other week, pretty sure it wasn't England. Get off your fucking armchairs you nutjobs.

Every one of us are entitled to our prejudisms, the joke is that ignorance has no limit. All extremist r a Bunch of fucking ignorant cowards.

Both the EDL and Al Muhajairon are wrong. Al Muhajairon views are not correct and the views of all Muslims. Sharia Law in the UK cannot sentence any individual to prism or anything like that. So sharia law is not changing the UK law. Sharia Law has never intended to change the UK law. However, it is just used to guide Muslims in everyday aspects of there life.

So where is the long article about the thugs in the UAF. EDL wants what a lot of people in Enland now want our freedom of speech back, our laws once again for all the people. Doesnt this stand off today remind you of the people in Egypt right now the EDL demonstrators trying to get their message across to our "multicultural worshiping government" and realtime thugs in the form of the UAF allowed to march against them. Please now write an expose`of the charmers in the UAF just to keep it even handed. Then perhaps we can get the excrable Jeremy Paxman to ask THEM some questions on Newsnight

You cannot call the EDL racist, some members might be racists, but the members seem to be sincere about stopping Sharia law. And thats good, I'm highly secularist, and very liberal, I like the EDL, because they are going to stop sexism, homophobia and keep England a secular nation.

Something needs to be done to protect our society, the EDL are doing something. This contrasts with the keyboard cowards that hide behind aliases and snipe at those with the balls to fight. The criticism is directed by left wing activists and vested interests that seem to think that their cries of 'racist & facist is still a viable weapon in their anti-English armoury. Such tactics are expected and dismissed.

You folks need to take on board that: 1. Islam is NOT a race 2. Islam is colourblind. There are black Muslims (think Islamised Africa), white Muslims, yellow Muslims (China etc) and brown Muslims (mainly Missle East). 3. The EDL draw members from all religions/belief or non-belief systems, and have many members who have the afore-mentioned skin colours. That is not a racist organisation. Given the above, their whole ethos.. exposing and opposing Islam cannot be termed racist. Islam is a totalitarian system of world belief that has military, ecnomic, political, social and religious components. The religious component is the mask (or Trojan Horse) for the other components. The Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan once said "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..." Allah's law (sharia) MUST rule over and DESTROY man-made laws. There is no such thing as "sharia lite" except as a temporary expedient. Islam is a classic example of the inherently violent belief because "The Perfect Man" Mohammed, after 10 years of trying to foster the "religion" of Islam; ie the praying, the fasting, circling of the kabah, reading his Q'ran, treating Jews, Christians and pagans nicely etc, he only had 130+ convertees. At that point, after he left Mecca for Medina, he turned to "Political and Military Islam".. violence, robbery, murder, burning, beheading, enslavement, FORCED conversion to Islam for Jews and Christians, or payment of a heavy tax (jizya) for remaining Jewish or Christian as subservient "dhimmis".. death remaining a punishment for breaking the extremely strict "dhimmi" rules. Husbands could have 4 wives but wives only one husband. This change in approach resulted in a rapid spread of Islam through terror and intimidation which still continues today of course. All over the world, governments are foolishly allowing sharia law to be established. Galloping sharia in the UK has resulted in 86+ sharia courts where decisions now over-rule British law, and a parallel, Islamic society has been allowed to be established under liberal multiculturalism. Europe is done for... America, "The Great Satan", is Islam's ultimate goal.. AND.. an Islamophobe is someone who HAS actually read the Qu'ran and hadith.. and who understands Islam!

We had no choice but to fight and die against Facism. Once again the threat to my country England has to defended at all costs.

I'm sorry, but has any actually seen an Edl march? Bunch of clowns, jokers and failures. Pathetocic people with a need to vent against with present day's stereotyoped "villain" .

Roberta Moore AKA Morrigan Emeleth *is* the EDL Jewish Division. It's astroturf - she has 100s of fake Facebook accounts to give the impression of a real organization where none exists. She isn't even Jewish herself - she claims to worship Satan. When she speaks at EDL events she is always booed. By the basis fascists for obvious reasons and the nonnazis because she glorifies the killings of British soldiers by Jewish terrorists during the mandate.

Islam is a religion, Muslims are a race.. EDL IS NOT racist. I guess the UAF supports killing innocent people like you and I. Regardless of who attends EDL marches, they will always be idiots and sensible people where ever you go. Nothing wrong with being patriotic.

The EDL are a sad, misguided bunch largely consisting of pissed up thugs/football hooligans. Who does actually want Sharia Law? Quite possibly, the EDL types would probsbly agree with its extreme eye-for-an-eye intolerance! Let's have less focus on race, colour, patriotism and faith and instead some much needed class solidarity. We need to stand together against the coalition govt and the 19 odd millionaires in the cabinet.

Lack of class, intelligence and ability to hold down jobs, not to mention sheer ugliness couple with fawning Zionist propaganda who have pulled out all the stops to lionise the scum... Means the jobless prats are not going away soon. They need it desperately as after all this allows them to believe that they are "patriots" instead of the pathetic jobless losers that they really are.

Just don't be a cunt, it's easy

bunch of losers EDL ,,, go and get educated than learn to debate, racist thugs chavs.

Below is a copy and paste from another blog - although i deem it politically incorrect it also seems accurate. Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components. Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.. Here's how it works: As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in: United States -- Muslim 0..6% Australia -- Muslim 1.5% Canada -- Muslim 1.9% China -- Muslim 1.8% Italy -- Muslim 1.5% Norway -- Muslim 1.8% At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in: Denmark -- Muslim 2% Germany -- Muslim 3.7% United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7% Spain -- Muslim 4% Thailand -- Muslim 4.6% From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in: France -- Muslim 8% Philippines -- 5% Sweden -- Muslim 5% Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3% The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5% Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8% At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in: Guyana -- Muslim 10% India -- Muslim 13.4% Israel -- Muslim 16% Kenya -- Muslim 10% Russia -- Muslim 15% After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in: Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8% At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in: Bosnia -- Muslim 40% Chad -- Muslim 53.1% Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7% From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in: Albania -- Muslim 70% Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4% Qatar -- Muslim 77.5% Sudan -- Muslim 70% After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in: Bangladesh -- Muslim 83% Egypt -- Muslim 90% Gaza -- Muslim 98.7% Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1% Iran -- Muslim 98% Iraq -- Muslim 97% Jordan -- Muslim 92% Morocco -- Muslim 98.7% Pakistan -- Muslim 97% Palestine -- Muslim 99% Syria -- Muslim 90% Tajikistan -- Muslim 90% Turkey -- Muslim 99.8% United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96% 100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in: Afghanistan -- Muslim 100% Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100% Somalia -- Muslim 100% Yemen -- Muslim 100% Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons. 'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj' It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate. Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century. Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

Britain is dead. This is not the Britain that gave the world Shakespeare,Newton or Churchill..This is not the Britain that gave the world its legal system. Today, Britain bend over backwards to appease its Islamic terrorists..watches silently as its young women, not the smarter get converted in street corners and turned into prostitutes..this is a Britain which is so imbibed in self pity and guilt due to Islamic propaganda that Prince Charles the idiot has no qualms singing praises to Islam an openly fascist supremacist religion whose only claim to fame is success of its lies and chaos. Hope Britain wakes up and destroys this Islamic nonsense.

I consider myself a liberal, socialist perhaps, but I am certainly watching groups like the EDL to see if they make reasonable arguments. Allowing Sharia law to trump laws in my nation is not something I would ever tolerate, just as I would never tolerate ANY sort of religiously-based form of law. I was surprised to read this is happening now in the UK. I really don't see how Europe will manage its Islamification while maintaining a Democratic framework as the Islamic population grows ever larger. A Californian.

Only one race thats the HUMAN RACE.

jeremy Paxman is an utterly vile piece of fecal matter, an arrogant piece of fecal matter at that, the fact he dislikes the EDL is a point in their favour

Churchill British? 50% American.

Patriotism/nationalism and strict adherance to 'faith' are all symptoms of misguided and somewhat fanatic attitudes. It doesn't happen in a vacuum; many people have every right to feel aggrieved with levels of exploitation, deprsvtion and inequality. However, we often put the blame where it is not due and go OTT. Disenfranchised people - be they black, white or Asian - often feel isolated and turn to fringe groups such as BNP, EDL an hardline Islamic organisations who sem to encapsulate their views nd offer a 'solution' when it is nothing of the sort. A lot of crap is spouted by mny people when e should be uniting together against the serious problems ociety faces - cuts, attacks on jobs and services, environmental destruction, depletion of resources, greed and mass consumersism. Get real. Go socialist. World solidarity against extremist nutters now.

Cheers for all the comments. I was at the march in Luton on Saturday, which seemed to pass relatively peacefully. This article is only an extract from a piece that appeared in Delayed Gratification magazine (www.dgquarterly.com if anyone is interested!) , so it's only half the story. But for Tom Armstrong and a couple of others to claim that this is some kind of EDL hatchet job is insane. I've had complaints from the other side, that it humanizes the EDL in a way they are uncomfortable with. This piece was intended to look at the make up of the EDL and show that, actually, you can't just dismiss it as a racist BNP-lite. There are thousands of 'members' (and I say 'members' because there isn't a membership system per se, just liking it on Facebook and then turning up at matches) who just don't fit into the skinhead stereotype. Yesterday for instance I spent most of the day with a gay Portuguese goth who is studying an MA in Middle Eastern politics but is at EDL marches to protest against the rise of religious power from liberal perspective. Either way, Cameroon's speech yesterday has ensured that the EDL will be even more of a force going forward. Because as Baroness Warsi said quite correctly, Islamaphobia has now passed the "dinner party test". Talk to anyone outside of London and you know that these views on Islam are held by more people than you might think...

The EDL are still going?

Time to Google in "Islam"--what the West needs to know,- that is those of you who can read, also look up the birthrate numbers for UK

It's all very well to try and justify the EDL's existence but they csannot be ignored or pandered to with post-modernist or libertarian rhetoric. They do indeed include many old-school, hardline football firms with fascist links as well as well-meaning but misguided people. Look at who set them up and funds them - a combination of new money and old money types. City types and old aristocratic individuals. The EDL may well include ordinary people who oppose the hardline intolerant brand of Islam and Sharia law...don't we all oppose that?! I certainly do not support or condone such dangerous nonsense but not for one second would I consider that running around making sweeping statements and spouting pathetic racist bilge in communities any way helpful. The fact that they may have some black/Asian/gay supporters just proves thst whites do not have a monopoly on ignorance. The EDL were designed purely with this in mind: make gereral demands opposing that which the majority would anyway, pretend you have no ulterior motive, conceal any racist and fascist links but just stir it up and let it rip on the streets. It's a hands-off attitude that is actually media savvy. The pathetic footsoldiers (totally barking up the wrong tree) are used to appeal to other like minded people. We should expose who is behind them and what their demands are. Things that they are very cagey about. The EDL offer no solution and neither of course do hardline Islamists. We should learn from history and call for unity.

All legitimate concerns as far as I can see but going about it in the completely wrong way. Who enacts legislation? Who runs the courts? Islam isn't the problem; terrorists, immigration etc all bullshit. YOUR governmental system administers all this: run by the few, against the many. Those at the top are pissing themselves that so many people are genuinely organising but are directing their ire at religious twats. Do you all need someone to tell you what to do and how to live? If not, organise to get rid of your representative 'democracy' and replace it with something less authoritarian. Only then will real public opinion (real democracy) ever be a reality in this country. Or not, you could all still tell the police that you're going to demonstrate (oxymoronic) within their parameters and rail against something that the elites want you to be fearful of; as long as it isn't directed towards them. Jokers.

Does anyone have any specific examples of having Sharia Law imposed on them? Or have I just been lucky?

Incidentally, where does it stand on driving with no MOT? Just wondering....

From what I have observed, many posters have criticised the messenger without commenting on the message. There is not a single Muslim organistaion, Muslim MP or Muslim in the Lords, MAB, SFC, MCB or Muslim police who will agree to a full open public examination of Islam in the various print media. This is because they know that Islam would be clearly totally unacceptable to the indigenous people icluding supporters of the indigenous culture and non-Islamic religions. The Koran tells you that it is to prevail over all other religions which means the imposition of Sharia even if the non-Muslims may dislike it. Islam is based on the legal inequality of mankind. No non-Muslim has the same legal status as a Muslim. Muslim women do not have the same legal status as a Muslim man. Islam is the only religion, doctrine or culture that specifically forbids any questioning, doubt or criticism. The penalty for this blasphemy is death or imprisonment. Islam is the only religion out of scores that is not based on the Golden Rule towards those outside the faith. Non-Muslims are literally second class citizens with limited legal rights and limited employment prospects. A non-Muslim is not to have authority over a Muslim. Please read the Koran and the ahadith which will explain a lot about Islam and why it is a cancer on the planet. Once installed there is never any way back - ever. concerned

P Fletcher have you actually even read one page of the Holy Quran? Seems to me you've been spending a lot of time of Zionist blogs...

deepak Britain is dead. This is not the Britain that gave the world Shakespeare,Newton or Churchill..This is not the Britain that gave the world its legal system. Today, Britain bend over backwards to appease its Islamic terrorists..watches silently as its young women, not the smarter get converted in street corners and turned into prostitutes..this is a Britain which is so imbibed in self pity and guilt due to Islamic propaganda that Prince Charles the idiot has no qualms singing praises to Islam an openly fascist supremacist religion whose only claim to fame is success of its lies and chaos. Hope Britain wakes up and destroys this Islamic nonsense. Lol is Deepak a Hindu Or Sikh name then???

This message to EDL don't be a fool watch out for propaganda from Zionist and in regards of patriotic I am a British Muslim and proud of it and will always uphold it I respect other religions I work with colleagues from all over nationalities no problem we have a laugh also I would to remind that so Many Muslim soldiers died in second world war for freedom of Britain fighting the Nazi not bloody wear tracksuit and shave the head pretend you like the uk Britain is my home and I'll defend it British don't mean white skin no

I think after All EDL are doing favor giving bad image about islam than many people decide to study Islam deeply and embrace it Islam is for all mankind regardless of you origin same thing happened in danemark with the cartoon so many people convert tO Islam after study it is a fact likens tea bag the more you mix it enhance the flavor Thanks EDL .

Come to think of it, the EDL actually make me want to become a radicalised Muslim...

KW - The Taliban would love you with that beard!

Education is the key. Allowing Faith schools to flourish in this country is a mistake. We should only teach facts. Anyone who has bothered to study the theory of evolution will agree that the fossil evidence is undeniable and proves all the 3 great faiths are wrong. If they are wrong about 1 thing, then they are proven false and are wrong about the whole kaboodal. In reference to the EDL, although they are unpalatable, they are a sympton of a disease. It's taken 400 years to house train christianity and Judaism. It's time for Islam to learn it's place too. We don't tolerate cults in England thank you very much.

I imagine they'd have a firm stance on kids in pubs too.

With respect tp adam979, I have read the whole of the Koran - more than once. Your ad hominem is the sort of reply that one would expect from a Muslim or Muslim apologist. Surah 9 in the Koran declares war against the non-Muslim world and abrogates all previous peaceful verses. If you were able to refute what I posted you would have done so but as I am correct in all that I posted I will ask you if you think that you can refute any specific point that I made. If you think that you can, please present your case. I have never visited a Zionist site despite your comment. Have you read the Koran or ahadith? I doubt it because you would not have posted what you did if you had.

Islam welcome every one any time 1.one can not claim to read koran and understand it by his interpretation this mistake what make people became radicalise or extremist 2. you have to read the sunnah which is an like every other religion a prophet come with the book to explain it example in the koran it does state to pray but not how that why there is a prophet to explain them .so understanding islam mean no get on any made up website online but pop to local mosque and pick a few books islam is peace religion and terrorism is not from islam let be clear i can sit here all day and argue the point . may god open heart of people and let them get knowledge . californian .

Hello peter. It would appear that you do not understand Islam. You claim that Islam is a religion of peace. Islam has divided the world into Dar al-Islam (House of Islamic dominance), and Dar al-Harb (House of war) - where Islam is fighting for dominance. Peace can not exist in Islam until all lands are under Islamic dominance. Muslims are under obligation to fight until all religion is for Allah. Books and pamphlets from mosques are not sources of Islam. The main sources are the Koran and the words and deeds of Muhammad. Do not forget that the Koran claims to be clear yet there are many different sects in Islam all claiming that they understand Islam best. Sunnis kill Shia and vice versa. This in itself shows that Islam is not peaceful at all. Violence and killing has been at the heart of Islam since the time of Muhammad. Muhammad and the Caliphs sent letters to the rulers of neihbouring countries inviting them to embrace Islam but warning them that if they did not accept the invitation they should pay the jizya with due humiliation and feel themselves subdued or, if they refused to pay, they should be invaded and fought. This is why Osama bin Laden invited the USA to embrace Islam because when the invitation was not accepted it gave OBL an Islamic excuse to fight the USA. Islam never was, and is not, and never can be a religion of peace. The Koran and Muhammad`s example ensure this.

This message to p Fletcher let me tell you something you are as extremist as this Muslim extremist you are a preacher of hate I can just tell by your word there no peace in it. Muslims never claim to take the whole world as you say !!! Muslim do explain there religion and give information like any other religion educating individuals you p Fletcher have read"some" word of Koran and translated it yourself without scholars thought and think you know it all by heart !!! Hmmmm don't think so also you read it with hatered so you dark heart won't let you absorb the morals I think you should reconsider studying it deeper with open heart conflict won't achieve anything but violence Britain is a Christian country just relax some Muslim are just giving the words of god like any other religion I see that every day in California let me make you a statement thanks god I am a Muslim I am happy in it I find peace and respect now in regards of Osama bin laden I don't believe he did 911 you watch the 911 conspiracy theory mate million American do believe is inside job, I am aware yes there is a small sect of Muslim who perhaps read the teaching of the Koran wrong and are plotting terrorism yes I am aware but these people will be judge by Allah and punished and hopefully caught by police and rot in prison because they took wrong understanding but you shouldn't judge all Muslims or Islam for being a bad religion NO .

Hello Peter. You deny what Allah tells you. It is all in the Koran. Please read the following verses - there are many more including ahadith but I will only show these three for the sake of brevity. Koran 9:33 He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse. Koran 24:55 Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth as He made rulers those before them, and that He will most certainly establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them, and that He will most certainly, after their fear, give them security in exchange; they shall serve Me, not associating aught with Me; and whoever is ungrateful after this, these it is who are the. transgressors. Koran 61:9 He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse. So far you have not given me any evidence to show that I am wrong. What I say about Islam is 100% correct. Please show me where I am wrong.

This country has been ruled by an a minority hell bent on forcing through their ideology - rich public schoolboy twats. One war - the Class War. Religion is just another way of dividing people - EDL just buy in to that!

Hello Steve. The subject under discussion relates to Islam. Do you think that Islam presents a significant threat to British culture?

shows that athiesm is the way forward. edl getting wound up over nothing, all a bunch of pricks

P Fletcher: You can pick short parts out of any religious book out of context that seem to agree with your prejudices. I am not a Muslim but I have read some of the Koran. There are other parts that will seem to say the opposite such as many examples of tolerance to others who share the religion of the book (i.e. Jews and Christians). The Bible has some horrendous passages in it. The Old Testament especially is horrifically violent, sexist and all the rest. In the Koran it says nothing abour women wearing the veil and it even states there are rivers or wine in heaven which appears at odds with the prohibition of alcolohol. This anti-Islamic hysteria is reminiscent of the anti-Jewish propoganda of the 30s. Be sensible. Religious extemists of any hue are dangerous and so are political extremists stirring up hatred against immigrants. Where are they campaigning against Catholic extremists or whoever? Is that because they are white? If the EDL are anti-extramist why not campaign against the BNP? Or are they the same people? They want free speech to all those bar Muslims clearly.

See http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/07/454929.html About Sharia courts, what some of these people forget is that there are Jewish courts as well which have been in daily use in Britain for a very long time.

Why have inarticulate football hooligans who can't argue there point without sounding like complete morons gained such a following? Nobody with an ounce of intelligence has stepped up because they haven't got any facts and don't want to look like a prick.

The EDL are just people trying to protect their country from the muslims who are try to take it over. Are you people so blind that you can't see what the muslims are doing? They are destroying any country they are in and you should be standing up for the EDL..Peace to all non-muslims who love their country.

Follow Malatesta's blog to get the low down on the far right clowns of the EDL- http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/

I was at the Tower Hamlets demo as an impartial journo, and, aside from the 'two tribes invade another place' aspect on both sides, I found the EDL presence to be fucking hilarious. 0 UAF arrests, 73 EDL arrests for beating up each other and the police. A protest is not a pub crawl, mugs. And to the Jewish sector of the EDL, do you really want to stand side by side with the neo-nazis who stood Sieg Heiling outside Liverpool Street station?

A majority of British Muslims are happy with England having a state chruch and the head of state being the head of that church (CoE). I argued with an EDL supporter about how absurd this was and its about to we had a secular state like France or the US. He had no idea what I was talking about and agreed with most Muslims in favour of our present constitutional settlement.

James I think you've got the wrong end of the stick, that's not what I thought

Im chuffed that I recently discovered Sabotage times. I found this article extreme(hehe)ly thought provoking and the comments both interesting and amusing. In summary I have concluded that Islam may be a threat to us non muslims here in England, although if you have 4 wives you could understand the need to indulge in a bit ethnic cleansing if only to get you out of mowing the lawn, grouting the bathroom etc. Also while I haven't seen much evidence of Sharia Law in Brentwood, me and many of my friends have long advocated getting stoned in the street so maybe we are being subliminally properganderisd.

i was an early member of the E.D.L and am still a supporter--never been to a football match--been injured on protests supporting the E.D.L and have been visited by special branch -i am a 65 years old who was middle of the road --that was until militant islam nazis and there middle class left wing working class haters reared there ugly heads!! taking a breather now--but i will be back-as will thousands of us when we are needed. so heads up you middle class politicos who speak the shit but dont live it. i look forward to meeting you on your barricades. Danny.

bunch of winey fuckers who are looking at other sections of society to solve theor own issues and problems. couldnt organise a piss up in the proverbial... barricades- dont make me laugh son. people died in the 2nd world war to stop religious and ethnic bigots like you, you do the english flag and the name of england a hug disservice. what have you ever contributed to this society that you can claim to defend? zero. get a fucking life you sad racist thugs.

JR Yes thousands of people died in the second world war to defend our way of life. my father was one of them. as for winey --well i suggest you lay of it SON!--4.30 in the afternoon is a tad early SON!! nighty nighty BOY. please excuse the lack of bad language.

To A Hunter, 29 March 2011-- I appreciate that you want to be reasonable, and I used to agree with you. Unfortunately, what P Fletcher says is true. The peaceful verses in the Koran are canceled (abrogated) by the dominating/violent ones under the principle of abrogation, which is also laid out in the Koran and Sunna. (The Koran alone is not the total scripture of Islam. The Sunna, the sayings [ahadith] and biography [sira] of Muhammad, goes along with it for almost all Muslims.) The verses about alcohol are just part of the strange, sexist picture of heaven laid out by Muhammad. They do not mean alcohol is not forbidden now by Muhammad-- it is. This is not hysteria. If you want to make historical comparisons, remember that not enough people took the threat of Hitler seriously, or believed that communism was nearly as horrible as it was. Of course most Muslims don't want to take over the world. They're just normal people. Sadly, totalitarian systems like Islam don't need the majority to be active, just cooperative or submissive. The Mafia works a lot the same way. Most Germans weren't active Nazis and most didn't want a world war. That did not help us. Very few Russians were communists when Lenin & Co. took over. Again, a fat lot of good that did. Please study how Islam works and has worked. You might start by asking yourself why the OIC (Organization of Islamic nations) rejected the UN Declaration of Human Rights, or why the European Court of Human Rights ruled in 2003 that sharia is incompatible with democracy. Also, the long quote above by onlythefactscount, 6 Feb 2011, is a sadly true picture. If you want a Muslim perspective that you can trust (which is rare because of ignorance and taqqiya), look up the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, founded by M. Zuhdi Jasser, M.D., a former U.S. Navy medical officer. Dr. Jasser is a devout Muslim of recent Syrian ancestry who deeply opposes traditional Islam, which he calls "political Islam." Dr. Jasser's speech in Norway in 2010 (on the AIFD web site) is a great place to start, and also his very recent rebuttal (~20 Sep 2011) of CAP's allegations against him (also on the AIFD web site) is eye-opening, especially about how two-faced some Muslim leaders can be-- he gives a good example. If you listen carefully to his speech and read carefully what he writes, you will see that he is basically in agreement with P Fletcher. Dr. Jasser thinks Islam can be reformed, which has never worked before although there have been many efforts. I am not optimistic about that, but I hope he is right.

To AJ Forester. It is clear you are just regurgitating what is written on some right wing anti-Islam sites. If you read the Quran and the background when the verses were revealed, you will find that there is no verse in the Quran cancelled out by other.

"What's the difference between these arbitration bourts and the Jewish Beth Din? Answer? Not a lot." And to study how to set up the sharia abritration courts they were invited to study them by those well known Taliban supporters- Rabbis in Stamford Hill. These so called sharia courts are voluntary abitration sessions used as a simpler alternative to civil court action in family matters. I threatened to use an abitration court for the telecoms industry one over a mobile tariff dispute. But I don't go around telling people the telco industry are part of a plot to take over British law. This is because it would make me look like a complete dick who has no idea what he's talking about.

"Daniel Elliott JR Yes thousands of people died in the second world war to defend our way of life. my father was one of them." You aren't your father. "Daniel Elliott that was until militant islam nazis and there middle class left wing working class haters reared there ugly heads!!" Militant Islam is any Muslim according to the EDL. I don't see the majority of Muslims calling for persecution and destruction of ethnic minorities in the manner of Nazis, unlike the EDL who are. Pretty neat trick, the Nazis pretending their victims are the Nazis. As for being working class heroes, the EDL has supported the BNP and NF in opposing anti-cuts demonstrations by working class people, in both Hull and Newcastle. They also were highly critical of the massive anti-cuts demonstration in London, saying they were all "commies", which is something the ruling classes tend to say about striking workers. The EDL also invaded the UK Uncut Facebook page and threw abuse at them. So what actually do the EDL do for the working classes? Err, they smash up small businesses such as kebab shops, oppose people fighting to keep their jobs, and persecute working class Muslims. The working class like Jews, gays, Sikhs, etc, are just another group that would be traditionally defended by the Left. What the EDL pretends is that the Left are a bunch of middle class, out-of-touch idiots who really hate those people and that the EDL (which is far-Right) will stand up for them. Then guess what? The EDL will divide and conquer people just like the Nazis did.

"If you want a Muslim perspective that you can trust (which is rare because of ignorance and taqqiya)" Taqqiya is when a Muslim can deny Muslim in order to avoid death or persecution, i.e. being persecuted by people like the EDL. The word like "dhimmi" has been taken by people who are ignorant of its true meaning and its meaning radically changed.

My god there are alot of middle class left wing cunts on this blog. You fuckers will face the muslim wrath before anyone else you stupid cockends. Grow the fuck up...

ED Many years ago in south london myself and like mindid pals--sat in asians houses with bats in our hands to defend them against NF thugs who were making there life hell. JR called me a bigot--well this bigot not long ago buried a dear and old pal who usually refered to himself as a black irish jew-- patrick ----man what a man and what a friend. Why Was i an early member of the E.D.L ? Because i see miitant islam as a severe threat to the cohesion of our country they kill and hate us--and as for the so called moderates there silence is deafening!! The E.D.L is my only voice. And Tommy is a brave Guy. Danny.

To Adam, 22 Sep 2011: Are you really that uninformed about Islam, Adam, or are you trying to deceive people? I think it's the second option. "Right wing anti-Islam sites"? Try Wikipedia's article on naskh(tafsir), i.e. abrogation, for an easy introduction to the subject. Wikipedia's article covers the several types of abrogation. You can also see Father Zakaria Botros on Youtube discuss the types of abrogation in the first of his three videos on "the disasters of the Quran" videos. You may not like him, Adam, but he knows Islam very well, which is why he is so good at convincing Muslims to leave Islam, which is why Al Qaeda will pay so much to anyone who kills him. Perhaps you are using deception by arguing against the word "cancel" without mentioning the accuracy of "abrogation", the more accurate term. I used the word "cancel" because I thought some readers would not be familiar with the meaning of the word "abrogate". Finally, I hope anyone reading this notices that you had no other argument to offer against anything else I said.

To Ed, 24 Sep 2011: I am sure that many honorable Muslims only use taqqiya in the limited sense you describe. Other Muslims, however, either use it more broadly or else simply lie, and a non-Muslim therefore cannot afford to trust Muslim assertions easily. Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser, in rebuttal of the CAP allegations against him, describes an incidence of deception by Siraj Wahhaj, Imam of Al-Taqwa Mosque in Brooklyn, New York, which shows clearly what I mean. On a much more mundane level, you can find an almost comical use of lying affirmed enthusiastically by Egyptian Imam Mahmoud Al-Masri in a clip from MEMRI TV on Youtube by searching for the title "Muslim Cleric: How to Lie about Islam". Note also how he cheerfully says (English translation), "If you renounce Islam, we will kill you." As for the term dhimmi (a subjugated non-Muslim who has been so graciously allowed to keep his/her head even though he/she is guilty of the crime of not believing in Islam), again, in some or many circumstances it may be imposed leniently. (1) The first problem is that the issue of how the dhimma contract is imposed on the non-Muslim is completely up to Islam to decide. The dhimmis themselves are helplessly at the mercy of Islam. They have only those rights which Islam chooses in that instance to grant them. That is essentially slavery. (2) Second, no matter how leniently or informally the dhimma contract is imposed, the fact remains that it is imposed on non-Muslims by force or threat of force when Muslims gain the upper hand, and it involves restriction of belief and lifestyle. (3) Third, often in history the dhimma contract has been truly horrible, and in any event the simple fact that it is an imposed condition means that it is undemocratic and psychologically destructive at the very best. There is a very good book about the dhimma contract called, "The Third Choice," by Mark Durie. Dr. Durie covers the origins, history, and characteristics of the dhimma practice very carefully.

Daniel Elliot: The EDL and others do not properly discriminate against militant Islam and ordinary Mulims, they try to tar the whole religion/people with terrorism/limb amputaiton or whatever, which is plain wrongheaded. That is what is silly and insulting with it. The leadership, if not all it's membership, were ex NF/BNP. They do not like brown or black people here nevermind their beliefs. Again I ask why aren't they campaigning against militant Christians? They are extremists themselves, what about being anti racist extremism? It's a bluff and not a very good one. Go on You Tube and see them attacking Asian families in restaurants minding their own business. They can't even seem to see the difference between Sikhs/Hindus or Muslims, they just see 'pakis'. It's pathetic. The hysteria aroused by this is reminiscent of the anti Jewish sentiments pre WW2. You don't need to be middle class or a lefty to see how idiotic this is. Why are you so scared? Racism = fear and ignorance. That's pretty clear with these mongs.

I dont use u tube or facebook--and i certianly know the difference between Sikhs Hindus Etc in fact the direst warnings about islam has come from those faiths.

The EDL is dying on its arse and this whitewash-job aint gonna halt that process. Their Glorious Leader, ironically, jailed for that which his group claims to oppose - entering a country illegally, oh, beautiful, beautiful irony, seems to spend most of his time chatting up underage girls on Twitter. Have a closer look at the backgrounds of it s key players and you'll see a tawdry assortment of lumpens with a collection of convictions for racist hate crimes, assault, sex crimes and sundry other unsavoury activities.It *is* racist and it *is* bigoted; they've simply capitalized on the Daily Mail-style Islamophobia currenty en vouge among the brain-dead. It's riven with splits, feuds and is going nowhere. Rather than this whitewash job have a look at ';Still Laughing At The EDL' on Facebook or here for a much more accurate look at this nasty collection of Nazis, perverts, thugs and lumpen hooligans.

Sorry, forgot the link http://edlnews.co.uk/