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No. All New Music Is Not Pan Circling Cack
There's too often a scramble to decry the modern music scene as rubbish. but that's an unoriginal and ill-thought out viewpoint. Here's why we need to wake up and smell the Azealias...
I happen to hold Kanye West in high esteem. He’s a very talented producer and rapper who regularly subverts the genre of Hip Hop whilst still selling records – some feat in urban music. Recently a friend of mine took major umbrage to this and made the comment… “He’s sh*t. All new music is sh*t. There are no great artists any more, in any genres”.
Forgetting Kanye, Hip Hop and my mate, this is a shockingly common opinion which is usually followed closely by one of the following…
“Kids listen to boll*cks these days.”
“X Factor is ruining music; the industry is f*cked.”
“There’s no one like Prince, MJ, Rick James, Marvin Gaye, The Beatles, Elvis, blah, blah, blah.”
Most of these points are somewhat valid, but to say there are no greats anymore is extremely naive.
While we’re not living like the Jetsons, the industry is wildly different to the 60s/70s/80s and people must take this into account when judging artists. There have been three key changes: The Media, The Public and The Machine.
The Media
In the past if you had talent the world only knew about you through your talent – crazy, I know!
You were 100% in control of when and how the public perceived you. Take someone like Prince; the public only knew him through his music, the records they owned and the time they were lucky enough to see him in concert. This control meant that his image could be carefully managed and he became an icon. Granted, he had incredible talent and charisma, but no more than many musicians have now.
Would David Bowie have been allowed to cultivate his weird, other-worldly Ziggy Stardust image if he appeared in 2012? Of course not!
In those times being a star carried some serious power with it. You were mysterious. You were not one of us. Would David Bowie have been allowed to cultivate his weird, other-worldly Ziggy Stardust image if he appeared in 2012? Of course not! Back then people couldn’t just go online and find out every detail about your real life.
This isn’t even that long ago. I remember hearing a Master P song on Tim Westwood’s Radio 1 show 14 years ago, when I was 13. Granted, the song was no masterpiece but I was gobsmacked; the whole vibe, slang and attitude was so exciting and different. I didn’t have access to the internet and it wasn’t nearly as advanced as it is now, so there was nowhere I could find out more about him, even what he looked like. Media vultures, like TMZ, that trade in undermining artists and securing photos of famous corpses didn’t exist, so rather than today’s, “check this out, it’s a YouTube clip of him tripping over on stage. what a d*ck”, I was left with the feeling that he was a superhero. Thus I judged every bit of his work in a certain way.
The problem is that the second you don’t 100% believe in what an artist is singing/rapping about the whole experience is destroyed. Now you may say that other performers go through the same pressures but this is simply not true. Taking actors as an example, there are big differences: it is understood that actors are playing a role so the real them doesn’t matter too much and the way a film is constructed (supporting casts, makeup and special effects) and consumed (often in isolation to distraction) is much more immersive, therefore it is easier to suspend disbelief.
The reason The Weeknd garnered such excitement recently is because no one really knew what he looked like for his first 3 mixtapes. It was impossible to find out any details on him, apart from the fact he liked to name drop Toronto. It meant that his music could be consumed without any preconceptions; the purest way.
It is worth mentioning that The Weeknd was in the lucky position where through being friends with Drake all it took was a tweet from Drake to his 7 million followers for people to be aware of his music. Not all artists are afforded this luxury and therefore have to put themselves ‘out there’ in order to garner any buzz in the first place.
The reason The Weeknd garnered such excitement recently is because no one really knew what he looked like for his first 3 mixtapes.
Even when artists do put themselves out there, they are not always welcomed with open arms. This brings us to…
The Public
We are jaded, cynical, have seen it all before… and then sold the tour t-shirt on eBay.
We know too much. We know too much about the artists and we know too much about how the industry works. Familiarity breeds contempt.
Web 2.0 has given us the ability to share information easily whilst being anonymous, if we want to be. Rather than this anonymity making it easier for people to hide, it has curiously led to the rise of the whistleblower as we saw with the Super Injuction scandals and Wikileaks. Now, if you are not transparent you will soon get found out.
As such we expect 100% transparency from our artists and if we don’t get it, we lash out and destroy them by branding them fake. The problem is that the more transparent they become, the more we realise that they are just as normal as us and it takes the excitement away from them and ultimately their music. It leaves our artists trying to walk a ridiculous line where we want them to be real, but not too real because it’s not appealing or sexy. Who wants to hear Graham from Accounts on a song?
we expect 100% transparency from our artists and if we don’t get it, we lash out and destroy them by branding them fake
Take the example of an artist going to the shops.
- They go shopping dressed down in a tracksuit… they get slated.
- So next time they go dressed up to go to the shops… they’re trying too hard.
- They then decide to get someone to do their shopping… they’re snooty.
What the f*ck are they supposed to do?
Rappers get it particularly hard. Their music is supposed to represent the struggle. As soon as they make it, they are no longer struggling. What do they do? Keep making underdog music even though they’re out of that situation? Make celebratory music only to then be told they’re not representing their people? Stay in the hood in order to keep it ‘real’ and get taken down by the crab-in-a-bucket mentality?
When Jay Z hit the big time in the late 90s he summed up the dichotomy with this couplet from ‘Streets Is Watching’:
“If I shoot you I’m brainless, if you shoot me you’re famous, what’s a ni**a to do?’
The other major issue with this transparency is that if you break down the process of creating art, you lose the magic; like having to explain a joke. In the 90s MTV started showing the making of music videos. This was an incredible insight into artists and the way projects are put together. This access is great in small doses but now we are privy to absolutely everything, all of the time; from how people are signed, to the deals they are signed to, to the way the album was recorded, to the way it was marketed, to the brands that have been involved, to the sales strategy… it gets draining! Sure, you can ignore all of this, but this info is everywhere.
Not only are we sick of the sight of our current artists, but we as humans have a tendency for nostalgia and thus we put our modern day artists up against the greats from the past in a fight they can never win.
“All bands these days are manufactured!”
Ermmm, what about most of the Motown acts?
“Today’s artists never write their own music”
Ermmm, what about Elvis?
There is no huge difference between the artists of different eras: there are always going to be greats, there are always going to be awful groups that get very popular and there are always going to be talented people that never get their break. Nothing has changed; it’s just that musicians are under more pressure than ever before. Which brings us to the next section…
The Machine
So presumably record labels are railing against this media saturation in order to keep their products sacred? No!
‘What? Give her lead single away on the back of Coco Pops? With no charge to us? Idiots! Yes, of course we’ll do it’.
Once something starts making money for a business, the next natural step is to trim the fat in the hope of creating a super-sleek behemoth. Rather than fighting against this 24/7 media intrusion, the music industry has readily embraced it as a cost cutting device. Why buy primetime TV ads when you can have your artist interviewed on primetime TV programmes that then get commented about on Twitter and syndicated ad-nauseum on Youtube?
“If I see Rihanna on a chat show one more time I swear to god I’ll….’
And it is not only established artists that are affected by this; the newer ones really have a tough time.
These days you cannot be great at something without becoming famous overnight. Boohoohoo! Whenever you hear a new artist say they don’t want to be famous, it often smacks of insincerity but for many it’s true. There’s an interview with the rapper Giggs where the interviewer comments on how shy he is and how he’s not good in interviews. He says he doesn’t want any of this, he just wants to rap and make a living without ‘all the sh*t that comes with it’. But many people assume that the person is famous because they want to be famous… and have willingly sold their soul, accepting all the sh*t that comes with fame.
Why buy primetime TV ads when you can have your artist interviewed on primetime TV programmes that then get commented about on Twitter and syndicated ad-nauseum on Youtube?
The biggest issue is that it’s incredibly hard to be famous and escape with any credibility whilst being pulled apart by the media and internet forums. Genuinely talented people become undervalued and to an extent looked down upon because they’re tarred with the ‘celeb’ brush, appearing in magazines whether they like it or not.
The second problem for newbies is that they are often thrust into the limelight by the short termist record labels before they are ever ready. We saw a situation with Azealia Banks where her single ‘212’ got so big that she was booked onto a world tour. The only slight issue being that she was so new to the industry that she only had 2 or 3 songs that she would be able to perform! Her team sensibly pulled the plug on the world tour and have had her cooped up in a studio working on new music and leaking tracks for the past few months. She was lucky. Many are not given the time to develop a sound before they are thrown into the deep end in the hope of grabbing a quick buck.
In Summary
You may ask, “Why does he give a sh*t?”
It is because I firmly believe that music is in one of the strongest places it has ever been in and this is despite the fact that it has suffered the most out of any art form from the behavioural shift the internet caused.
Even if you do not necessarily agree with me, how does it make any sense that it could be in a much worse place than the past? Technology has improved. Instruments have improved. Engineering has improved. Sound quality has improved. We are more self aware and understanding of sounds and influences. The demise of mammoth record labels means we have music much closer to the artist’s vision than in the past. Industry bureaucracy has been diluted, leading to more collaborations than ever before. People no longer listen to only one type of music. Genres are all over the place so that everyday new sounds and styles are being created. We are aware of music from around the world in a way that was impossible pre-internet. Experimentation is rife.
How could the final product be worse than in the past?
This article is not about blaming anyone or anything. Nothing is going to change the environment that our artists have to work in. It is merely stating the importance of cutting our modern artists some slack before making blanket statements like: “There are no great artists any more.”
If you liked this, check out these other articles by Rory
The Top 10 Beats In Hip-Hop…Ever
A$AP Rocky: Hip-Hop’s New Emperor Of Swag
Love Hip-Hop’s Golden Era? Then Check Out The New Kids
Click here for more articles about Music in Sabotage Times
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COMMENTS
Amazing article
great piece
Really great article. Particularly found the part about 'The Public' very interesting, reminded me of exactly the sort of hype/backlash that surrounded Lana Del Rey at the turn of the year with the 'Oh my god, she's fake?!' comments.
"he had incredible talent and charisma, but no more than many musicians have now." Please name many contemporary artists that have Prince's talent. Bear in mind he can play every instrument in a rock band + 3 or 4 others to a high standard.
sorry, but, bollocks - most 'urban' music is, to say the least, misogynist. And the rest of it is pretty tuneless; Prince, however, whilst embracing rock, pop, and rap with the silent 'c' crossed musical boundaries like few artist(e)s before or since. As well as his well-known instrumental abilities, he also was an exceptional songwriter and producer in the 80s and since ... Kanye West? Hmm, let's see in 30 years who can name one of his 'hits', 'cos I can't even now! Tim Westwood? Yeah, loads of credibility, innit?
There are artists out there: Mos Def, Ryan Leslie, Jeremih, Wyclef and even Bieber. And that's just 'urban' music. YouTube them if u don't believe me. Watch the way Timbaland and Pharrell put their beats together. Watch Chad Hugo moving from instrument to instrument. I did say forget Kanye and Hip Hop in the intro. I get that people don't rate him and/or like him, but this piece was about modern music regardless of genre. But just to appease you, in 2042 the following tracks will still get played: Gold digger, N***as In Paris, Good Life, All Falls Down, Touch The Sky (yes, a Curtis Mayfield sample) and Hey Mama to name a few. Regardless of the above, I'm curious... are you saying modern music is worse than the past? If so, why?
Fantastic, well-written and probably all true. It's very, very complicated right now, but, if you listen hard enough, you can hear some absolutely brilliant music around at the moment. Bon Iver and Meg Myers off the top of my head. That remix soundtracking the ie9 advert. I could go on...probably tracks not artists are more important now.
Is this the same Rory who compared the Wu to Odd Future, Biggie to Rick Ross, Outkast to Kid Kudi - you have zero credibility and should jump out the nearest window. I don't know how anyone would publish your work after you showed your lack of knowledge and common sense. To speak directly to this piece (if you can call it that) - Yes, there is the rare new artist that will come with some buzz and eventually fade into oblivion - never leaving a catalogue like true MCs. I could listen to an Outkast album, Biggie album, etc. to this day and it's still relevant and bangs hard. Do you really think 20yrs from now you're going to pull out a 2 Chainz, Drake, Rick Ross album and play it cover to cover - NO! Rory you are a SHEEP among many!
Nonsense, I'm not talking about Hip Hop here.
Nonsense, rather than encouraging suicide which is a little extreme, can you answer this question for me... is modern music better, worse or the same as in the past? Then can you explain your point of view. A debate would be more interesting than name calling.
This is deep shizz Rory, well structured piece with your normal swerve thrown in. After watching a recent documentary on BBC about prince I now have a a lot of time for the guy whereas before I thought he was just a cross dresser. Unfortunately we live in a time where nothing seems to match up to times gone by. Every time I enter my local pub I'm reminded by old men with beer guts how semi pro football isn't what it used to be or the birds in the pub aren't as fit. As I like to say... Cynicism killed the cat
Encouraging suicide? GROW A PAIR! It's a phrase not meant for actually following - MORON. However if you are that weak I suggest you call a suicide hotline and get your issues sorted out. You're a moron who compared Nas to Lupe, Biggie to Rick Ross, Wu to Odd Future - you get no dialogue or questions answered you're a disgrace for writting that piece last year. I don't care if you're talking hip hop or any other genre of music my arguement still stands. You are a two bit hack and you know it. Just shows how pathetic Sabotage Times is when it comes to music journalism.
...and if you can't tell how I feel about the current state of music you've got serious mental deficiencies.
haha. so much anger over a piece written a year ago. wow. If I was you I just wouldn't bother wasting your time reading my 'two bit hack' stuff for future.
Yes, when someone writes utter garbage that may have been written a year ago but gets re-published on the site as a current article you get a reaction - imagine that. Anger, not so much more like disgust. However knowing what crap you write I like to leave comments to try and help your simple mind.
...and even if it had been written 5 years ago it was that horrible. Horrible enough to have everyone after my comment pretty much say the same thing.
Don't forget your hip hop for dummies on the next hip hop piece you write throw in a SWAG or YOLO and they'll love you! You kids make me laugh.
In case you forgot some comments from the last article (something to reflect on Rory): Nonsense "Hip Hop is experiencing a renaissance in 2011 parallel to the surge of the 90s." - The author of this article is a complete IDIOT and on the same level as Felix the other uneducated 'Hip Hop' writer for this site. Rorry - slap yourself for trying to compare the Wu to Odd Future! Slap yourself for comparing Biggie, Nas, OUTKAST to ANYONE of this era. You disgust me! 5:26 pm, 14-Aug-2012pies this truly has to be one of the stupidest articles I've read.... you clearly have no knowledge of hip-hop and have put together an uneducated slap-dash dump of a piece. The original rappers have legacies that are untouched by some of the mainstream metrosexuals you've vomited onto this site You should be ashamed to mention B.I.G. in the same breath as Rick Ross and to compare Wu-tang to odd future is just plain stupid. Wiz Khalifa has had one track, then goes out with Kanye's ex.... Snoop is a legend that has been rapping for decades... Can you imagine if some of the old school rappers read this? Nas would slap you, Wu-tang, use a coat hanger, biggie, eat you and tupac just shoot you in the head..... its for reasons like this that Ive stopped reading this site as much as i used to 5:32 pm, 14-Aug-2012Nonsense ..and I don't give a ish this article is a year old! This is trash! The author is trash! 7:05 pm, 14-Aug-2012DEAN F Horrible. Every article about black culture on the Sabotage times f*ckin sucks. 9:08 pm, 14-Aug-2012anon Don't even know what to say to this, other than shite article. 3:08 pm, 15-Aug-2012Kenny Senior Compare this........Piers Morgans autobiography / This article ? 5:50 pm, 18-Aug-2012Alex No mention of guru/premier but considers jay z to be a great. Lost all credibility from me right there
#swag
'nonsense', you sound like an absolute kadouche maker. keep typing with those fingers of fire, your incessant anger at a just opinion is absolutely hilarious. #tincanfulloffarts
#pawn
This is a very good piece, and it a shame that some individuals cant actually be mature enough to debate or discuss something without being aggressive or considering their own opinion as the absolute be all and end all. Its a piece, written by a person, so if there is a little bias then this has to be accepted, so use your noodle, back up your arguments with sources or a sound basis like Rory has tried to do. Nonsense, you are an idiot pal. It is impossible to know wether a Kanye album or a jayz Track or a D'angelo album is going to be as timeless as some of the greats from 80's/90's... why speculate. enjoy it now, or simply dont, whatever. Albums are still going gold and platinum in an age of downloads and in a time where classic music is still getting recognition...So there has to be something in it. I follow Bootsy Collins on Twitter, there are so many kids on there that now love his music, all due to the fact the media avenues can still spread the word. I have been to see prince in concert, and in turn have seen Kanye West. Prince wins hands down... but he has released 37 albums and has 30 years + experience. I enjoyed them both in their own entirity. So why slate todays music and just enjoy it for what it is. Think of how much music has been released, it has to change to remain successful. there are thousands of wannabe artists out there,im willing to bet more than ever before. What separates the weak from the chuff if everything is now shit?! The comparisons made in Rory's previous peice were not simply 'Rick Ross is fat, so is Biggie, they are the same'. It was broad comparisons and similarities in concepts, demeanor,impact on the game and ultimately success etc. people shouldt take things so damn literally. In 20 years, why dont we all re-comment on this piece and if nobody can name a classic track/album from today's music scene that they still talk about with friends or listen to,Il take it all back. But i know for sure iv got several albums il have ready to thrown at you.
Ahh the sheep heed the call for help. Al Bundy (fitting) what are you rambling on about? I don't care if they were broad comparisons - impact!? Biggie and Rick Ross same impact - you're a moron as well.
take your tinted glasses off. I never said they had the same impact, I was merely stating some of the factors that Rory was taking into account. Using RR and Big as an example, concepts about champagne lifestyle, having fun, girls but also straight G sh*t can be used as a comparison. And Maybach Music are smashing it right now. Featuring everywhere and selling records. All in a short period of time. Lets see what impact they continue to have. until then go and abuse some videos on Youtube that you arent a fan of, that strikes me as your kind of thing. Rory, sorry for this into an urban music debate, with sommeone who clearly knows more than all of us put together. Back to era's of music, what era would you have liked to be in your late teens- early 20's if you could choose?
The ramblings of someone without a clue and backpedalling. What you first said is correct he did make comparisons that you say were broad - I disagree comparing the impact on hip hop btw Big and Rick Ross is ridiculous and not a broad comparison to me, actually very specific. Yes, I clearly have more knowledge in the genre.
no one is back pedalling here. you used the word 'same', i used the word 'similarities'. Read what is infront of you and decipher between the two if you can. It takes time to build legacies, which the great artisits in question have. The argument surrounding current artists has to somehow be compared to the impact the legends had at their time, not now. think you are forgetting that. This piece is about, to qoute author: stating the importance of cutting our modern artists some slack before making blanket statements like: “There are no great artists any more.” Blanket staements I imagine people like just cant overlook.If you had that much knowledge in the genre, why dont you write a piece, Id love to read it.
I would imagine most readers on the site are from Europe - England in particular? I frequent this site and other sites for the football/EPL articles (soccer as they call it where I'm from). I grew up in the late 80's into the 90's in the NJ-NYC area. I came up as this 'genre' and lifestyle was created. All the things you TALK about or love to listen about - I was a part of it. I was at the Rink for the classic Roxanne battles or when Slick Rick first performed. Gangstarr, Showbiz and AG, Diamond D, BDP, the list goes on and on. Then A Tribe Called Quest, Pete Rock and CL Smooth, and De La Soul came and changed things up - gave an alternative listening experience. Then mixtapes (Chubby Chubb, DJ Clue, Silver Surfer, Dirty Harry etc). Then the Wu Tang took the industry in a whole different direction - RZA beats, solo deals for each member! My friend to this day has the first print (white with the hand written art work) for Wu Tang's Protect your neck. I listened to Stretch and Bobbito and recorded all the shows I could - ON TAPE. I was listening when Jay Z first brought Big L up to the show. I was wearing my back pack as the whole Duck Down Records movement blew up (Black Moon, Smif n Wesson, Heltah Skeltah). When Big took the crown back. I saw one of Pun's last performances as he sat on stool for 3 songs and bounced in a limo. I was in the Tunnel Sunday nights. I know what Al’s Famous Wedge in Hunt’s Point Bronx is. What's your connection - Tim Westwood!? You've wasted enough of my time.
Current music doesn't have the same heart/soul - specifically speaking about hip hop. These new kids are like the spoiled rotten kids in your class that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth. This was given to them and they have done nothing to advance it. Sure there are some new guys I like A$ap Rocky, Schoolboy Q - but just like years past they will fade away and cannot leave a lasting legacy.
But there are some that will/could. You cant say not one current artist will not leave the same kind of legacy in years to come. None of us know for sure. It sounds like you have loads to call upon and have experienced things most fans would love to see in their prime years. Shame you didnt call upon that to lead a decent debate rather than coming across so vexed and aggy about it.
There is alot of garbage out there too. that cant be said as much about the 90's.
You are correct and I will concede that I cannot predict the future of any current artist. My major issue is the commercialization and lyrical content that has been ushered in. We live in a time when you have 15 year olds thinking Lil' Wayne is some type of lyrical genius - it's nuts.
Agreed. I happen to enjoy Lil Wayne pre Carter III but certainly not for lyrical content... And Its sad when young fans go crazy over new material that doesnt even compare to the same artists own material, let alone the artists from previous era's. I had an argument recently whereby I used the Big L Jayz freestyle as an example of how good some rappers were in terms of skill in comparison to what are considered 'current' artists. Big L smoked Jig on that and If he managed to finish The Big Picture himself, he would have been huge. Imo
I also try to consider that back when our legendary artists were at the forefront, the genre wasnt widely accepted still and was going through a growth period. Those artists were integral in pushing that movement forward and it was groundbreaking. Of course their impact is going to be huge. Current artists I guess have to try and achieve this in a genre more widely accepted and at a more prominent stage in its lifespan. Much harder to be groundbreaking and be successful, sometimes having pushing the boundaries immensly, furthering it from 'real hip hop'.
That freestyle you mentioned has to be the same one I mentioned above on the Stretch and Bobbito show. They went for 7 or 8 minutes - classic material. That was back when Jay was doing his jiggggidy yeah bigggddy bad type flow. Big L was a Harlem legend - can't go wrong with a DITC member. His 1995 Lifestylez ov da Poor & Dangerous tape got steady play in my friend's mother's car as we drove the westside hwy or whatever it's called now.
Yeah thats the one. 'Big L is the n***a you expect, to catch wreck in any cassette deck, I'm so ahead of my time, my parents haven't met yet'. Unreal flow. Metaphors galore. He was ahead of his time.
If you're not from states I'm impressed Bundy (not a jab at England or Europe). Nice to conversate with someone that knows exactly what you're talking about. Good speaking with you.
Before I go Bundy put me on to an MC from where you are that you think I may like. I always like to hear good music from abroad - always a different take on things.
Yeah im from England. Oxford to be exact! For me, the best out of the UK is Kano. Think he has cracked the US a bit and he has stuck to his integrity in his genre better than any other MC. its grime though not hip hop. Theres an MC called Giggs whos voice is pretty cool. Real deep. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mznv4ACjkzc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIUL10qOeR8
Nonsense, on a slightly different note, serious question... Do you really not rate Kanye? Can you not see the good he has done for modern Hip Hop? Kanye is as much 'Hip Hop' as any of the artists you've brought up. He loves the genre and nurtures it. Kanye has done as much for the genre as RZA for example. You may prefer one over the other, fine, but if you are being fair and reasonable you know it's true. This is not me bashing old artists which is what I fear you'll interpret this as because you don't seem to believe you can like old and new stuff. One of RZA's beats made it into my recent Top10 HipHop Instrumental articles, and none of Kanye's did so you can't put my point of view down to bias. It's much more interesting hearing you maturely discussing Hip Hop rather than getting your knickers in a twist.
I would have to agree with Nonsense here (not with his borderline abuse) but his paragraph above, about growing up with hip hop, rather than being an outsider looking in who has no real experience to call on. If it is correct that this author has grown up in Europe how can he possibly comment on something (hip hop) so far from his reach. It would be like me writing a blog on Cricket(?) whilst living in Atlanta. His knowledge of hip hop, I imagine, has come from magazines, youtube, the odd concert when Weezy or Kanye has come to the UK to perform or other online blogs made up other peoples opinions. I'm sorry but you really can't take this guys articles seriously. P.S - Nonsense is right again - Tim Westwood. Please.
Rory - Yes, Kanye would be an example of a 'newer' artist (keep in mind he did work under Jay Z for years making beats)that has made solid contributions. Loved the 'Flashing Lights' video. I enjoy most of his work. However I'm hard pressed to find others, especially those that didn't work with 90's artists making beats etc. before getting their shot.
So the bottom line is there are new artists that may be enjoyable however they are few and far between. I think Kanye is probably the only 'newer' artist that has remained relevant - and when I say relevant I don't mean sales like Lil' Wayne - I mean creatively relevant.
Not sure my last comment went through, but nonsense I would check out Kano if you haven't already. Raw UK talent- and whilst its 'grime' not hip hop, as an MC there's none better for me. Check out p's & q's or The Product, Feel Free... Tracks like that. Giggs is another MC that has a great sounding voice. Check out 'look what the cat dragged in'.
Like a previous commenter stated maybe I'm just one of those guys at the pub talking about 'in my day'. It's just hard to be a part of the birth of hip hop and see where it is today. Those of us from that time would have preferred it to remain underground rather than this disgusting machine it has become.
Thanks Bundy - I'll check it out.
Like a previous commenter wrote maybe I'm just one of those guys at the pub talking about 'in my day'. It's just hard to be a part of the birth of hip hop and see where it is today. Those of us from that time would have preferred it to remain underground rather than this disgusting machine it has become.
Think we all wish that it could stay the same, artists never fade, never lose their integrity, more input in what music goes out to their die hard fans. Unfortunately the reality is it just can't. Genres have to broaden to stay relevant. Guess we just have to accept it and enjoy the fact it's still here when people thought it was a fad that would die out when Tupac did! I say this whilst bumping Ready To Die on the way to 'soccer'. At least we an all still do that...
At least you held off on the soccer thing - I thought I would have been blasted for uttering the term. I'm going to check out that music later tonight. Rory- all I can say is I definitely did not draw the same parallels to the artists you did in the one article. I felt you were slighting the originals somewhat. However there's my perception, yours, and others. Anyway you seem like good peoples. Take it easy guys.
Bundy - just listened to Kano ps and qs and layer cake. Good suggestion. Can you tell me what is classified as grime? I think maybe my solution is to listen to whats going on outside of the US. Although hip hop orginated where I was raised it seems you've (UK) put you're own twist on it and I like it. An English accent is sick when flowing over decent beats.
Nonsense grime originated in London in the early 2000's as the UK garage scene moved away from its house routes towards darker themes and sounds. An album that represents that era for me is boy in da corner by dizzee rascal. For me that album was dizzee at his best before he got too commercial and chased the paper. An artist called Wiley was also one of the main founders of grime but for me dizzee and kano are the best mc's to come out of the grime movement
Yes, get on Boy In Da Corner! If you feel modern hip hop is missing a soul/purpose, that album is a must. Incredibly raw and original. Dizzee was 18 at the time and produced most of the beats too, pretty incredible. It won the Mercury Award the year it came out, which is arguably the most credible music award in the UK. It was almost unheard of for an 'urban' album to win, let alone an album from a genre as dark and anti-establishment as grime. Would be curious to get your take on it.
Agree with the above point on grime. And none come bigger than Kano or Dizzee. There's a video called 'lord of the Mic's' where Kano and Wiley battle on a street stairwell in London. Goes on for about 15 minute and Kano absolutely smashes it. Grime often has some brooding, Menacing lyrics filled with bravado and an insight into inner city life over here. The accent really works too as you say. Unfortunately since Kano went stateside his accent started to change a tad but he's gained success whilst sticking true to his genre and keeping his artistic integrity. He hasn't sold out at all really. Respect that.
Nonsense check out Dizzee's 'i luv you' or 'just a rascal', 'fix up look sharp'. All huge tracks from that album.
Bundy, Rory, and Jimmy thanks for the insight. I checked out a couple of Dizzee's singles and Rory is correct I feel American hip hop has lost it's soul. This is something new to me and you can feel the hunger and honesty. Thanks for putting me on to new music that I feel.
Something original for once!
You probably have already heard them but the only US singles I'm feeling now is Schoolboy Q - "There He Go" and "Hands on the Wheel". A$sap Rocky - "Goldie" and "Peso".
Yeah A$AP Rocky is getting some recognition here. French Montana is sounding good right now, interested to hear the album. and T.I 'Im Flexin' I was feeling. New God Flow by Pusha T and Kanye is pretty banging as far as recent tracks go, after 'Mercy im looking forward to Kanye's next installment. As far as lyricists go nonsense, what do you think of Talib Kweli? and hi tek of course...
Talib Kweli (NYC), Mos Def(NYC), Hi Tek (Cincinnati - I think) have definitely had albums/singles that got steady rotation from me. Solid lyricists - to the point where they don't get recognized by the mainstream until someone like Mos Def puts out a 'Ms Fat Booty' or 'Umi Says'. That whole Black Star project I felt - late 90's though. Recently I found a newer Talib Kweli mixtape probably for a recent album and was a little disappointed. To Rory's point about Kanye respecting the culture I love the Ghostface sample in that New God Flow song. I also like Pusha T's diss record directed at Drake & Lil' Wayne 'Exodus 23:1' - the video is raw too - Virginia. Listen to Schoolboy Q - 'There He Go' and 'Hands on the Wheel'. Tell me what you think born in Germany raised in LA(I like the new LA direction).
Yeah the latest Kweli album,think its 'revs per minute' i wasnt really into. Maybe didnt give it enough time to be fair. I saw Kweli perform in Birmingham, not with Hi Tek but with the DMC champion at the time on the tables. He was unreal. Freestyled to a Kanye beat and just killed it. Blackstar is definitely where it was at.They did a little collabo on the latest Kweli album i mentioned, produced by Hi Tek featuring J Cole. I enjoyed that, I like what Kanye is doing involving those kind of artists either in smaples or with actual input. The Dark Fantasy album had alot of input from some great people, RZA etc. Il check out Schoolboy Q, cant say im familiar.
I think the closest America has to Grime (in terms of content not necessarily the same sound and flow) would be a group like Dead Prez. Anti-estabishment, anti-anything. Revolutionary But Gangsta
Rory - some new music I like. Schoolboy Q: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnnYiW5dnhQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAYZHwvXQx8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6n324LCe_0&feature=related Curren$y: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7uo7fzv9LU&playnext=1&list=PL9F8059CC2AF3B7D2&feature=results_main Had to add some old school O.C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf68J5iqK6g&feature=related The Legion "rest in peace": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NMXTfFCeD8
Big Krit 'Boobie Miles' the new south sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mntv1rWi2hA
Dom Kennedy - 'My type of party': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44-_CWBFamc
Hit-Boy & Kid Cudi - 'Old School Caddy': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SyLA0-MTDA
Some commercial ish: DJ Drama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAxCw0XMA8E
Pusha T: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Evs0wwnuak
New take on Wu Tang 'Sleep Rules Everything Around Me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ourDnKp6x14
It's really hard to find good stuff these days. You can't just find it by turning on the radio because most of that sounds like a cow singing through a vocoder or is some computer generated dross sampling bits of rhythm or harmony from old songs and either shouting bollocks over it or employing aforesaid cow. But good music has never been easy to come by. It's not in the major's interest to sell good music until well after it's sell by date and somebody else has done the hard work of getting it noticed.
Can't believe that no one likes that Big K.R.I.T. 'Boobie Miles' or that Schoolboy Q 'There He Go' or 'Hands on the wheel. The official videos for Boobie Miles and There He go are nice too.
...or that Goldie joint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofoIMg76Sng&feature=related
Game/Kendrick Lamar - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsMMuXZZUm8&feature=related
Nonsense, Big fan of that whole Black Hippy movement, some great fresh stuff. As for Pusha T, I'm a huge fan. I still bump Lord Willin' to this day. Although I don't hate Young Money et al, "Exodus 23:1" has to be one of the hardest disses in recent memory. Not necessarily the slickest lines, but the feeling, it's just sooooo cold and scathing. Thanks for putting me on that Hitboy & Cudi track. Need to check more of Hitboy's stuff, I've heard his mixtape is decent.
Been getting my ears round Schoolboy Q a bit and its nice. Nightmare on Figg St, video is menacing. Kendrick Lamar is getting some big air play from me at the moment, cant help but love 'Swimming Pools' at the moment. 'Drank'
Nonsense, hope all well! would be good to get your balanced thoughts on a new piece I've written: http://www.sabotagetimes.com/music/why-2012-was-the-best-year-in-hip-hop-for-a-decade/
SABOTAGE
