Arsenal’s Arsene Wenger on Idolising Pele, Playing Like Roy Keane and Being Fond of Pies

Do you remember the first football match you ever saw? Who were your idols?

The first football match that I saw was in my village [Duttlenheim, on the French/German border]. The local team would meet in my parents’ little pub every Sunday. In the week leading up to the game, all the talk would be about who would be picked for the team – so you could say I’ve been learning about team building since I started to walk. As a kid I thought the only important thing in life was football. And I haven’t changed a lot since!

My first idol was Pele. Everybody spoke about him and because we couldn’t see him much on TV he was even more a mystery. After that most of my idols were German – Overath, Beckenbauer – because at the time their football was so strong.

You’re clearly a very intelligent man who could have succeeded in many different vocations. When did you realise that football was the profession for you?

I studied hard at school but it was always obvious to me that if I could spend my life in the game then I would. I started to practise at the age of nine but because I came from such a small village I didn’t have my first coach until I was 19. I thought it was just a dream – it seemed that footballers were on another planet entirely. My parents found it difficult to accept that their son, who worked so hard in school, could go to work in football. Back then, football was not a job for serious people. They wanted me to become a lawyer or a doctor or something like that. I needed to fight to convince my parents. Fortunately, I’ve finally managed to get myself a decent career [laughs]. I’ve heard that you play down your ability as a footballer and were actually better that you say.

What kind of player were you?

I wasn’t an international but I played at the top level in France [winning Ligue 1 with RC Strasbourg in 1979]. Sometimes I think, ‘If I had the conditions of the modern players, how good would I have been?’ I don’t know. I came very late to the game but the most influential guy, my coach Max Hild [at AS Mutzig], has said I was quite a decent player. I was first a striker then a midfielder then finished as a centre-back so I could defend and attack at a certain level. [You’ve been compared to both Ray Parlour and Roy Keane. Is that a fair comparison?] I would be happy to be both!

Were you one of those players who was always destined for management? Did you take notes during team-talks?

I didn’t necessarily think so at the time because I didn’t know whether I would be good enough. But I always got on well with my coaches and they with me because we shared a passion. I would drive 600 miles to look for decent players. Sometimes I would arrive two hours before the game started and stand behind the goal in the rain and then drive home the same night. What people don’t know is that when I was a young coach of 31 at the Strasbourg academy, I was coach, scout, physio, captain… everything. It was a fantastic education.

You, Sven, Jose, Sir Alex… do you think there’s any advantage in going into football management after a less-than glittering playing career?

[Looks a little put out at this description of his playing career] Certainly, because you have a little bit of frustration from your career and that can help the motivation. I did not have complete recognition as a player and maybe I felt that could be forgotten. It’s difficult to say, but I’m tempted to say yes.

Given your track record, did you find it odd that no one in England seemed to know who you were when you arrived at Arsenal? What did you think when you saw headlines like ‘Arsene Who?’

I could understand the public not knowing who I was but I was surprised the specialists didn’t. I’d taken Monaco to the Cup Winners’ Cup final [in 1992], helped them to win the league [1988] and won the cup three times [1989,1990,1991]. But it didn’t bother me much because at the end of the day that meant they had low expectations of me [laughs]. Were you aware that Arsenal were known throughout the country as ‘Boring, Boring Arsenal’?

How easy was it for you to change that culture and introduce your own?

Yes, I was aware of Arsenal’s reputation and so I brought my changes in slowly and patiently. After all, I had inherited a good team. There’s always a risk if you don’t start well that you won’t be accepted. That’s why I started cautiously; I knew I had to win games to convince the players. I remember you played three at the back for a while when you first arrived at Arsenal.

What was your thinking behind this? Had you not heard of the ‘Famous Back Four’?

I had heard but when I arrived they were already playing that system. We had three very intelligent central defenders in Martin Keown, Steve Bould and Tony Adams and they were quite happy with it. I didn’t like the system but I thought I’d leave it to the end of the season because to change it I needed to change the players.

You’re known for changing the dietary habits of Arsenal’s players. But is there any unhealthy British speciality you’re a bit partial to? Fish and chips, roast beef and Yorkshire puddings, steak and kidney pie, apple crumble and custard?

Fish and chips not so much, but Christmas pudding, yes! I like pies. Cherry pie, apple pie, with ice cream. I like a lot of things that are not good for you. But I always find it stupid that a player can practice the whole week and then spoil his game because he eats something silly 24 hours before. I remember my first day at Arsenal when we were travelling to Blackburn and the players were at the back of our bus chanting, ‘We want our Mars Bars!’ [laughs] They used to eat them before the game but I took them away. Sure, it doesn’t guarantee you win the game, but it means the guy with a sensitive liver doesn’t have his preparations ruined. Food is like kerosene. If you put the wrong one in your car, it’s not as quick as it should be.

Arsene Wenger talked to me courtesy of Nike. Thank you Nike.

For the full interview check FourFourTwo’s ace website

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Do you remember the first football match you ever saw? Who were your idols?

The first football match that I saw was in my village [Duttlenheim, on the French/German border]. The local team would meet in my parents’ little pub every Sunday. In the week leading up to the game, all the talk would be about who would be picked for the team – so you could say I’ve been learning about teambuilding since I started to walk. As a kid I thought the only important thing in life was football. And I haven’t changed a lot since!

My first idol was Pele. Everybody spoke about him and because we couldn’t see him much on TV he was even more a mystery. After that most of my idols were German – Overath, Beckenbauer – because at the time their football was so strong.

You’re clearly a very intelligent man who could have succeeded in many different vocations. When did you realise that football was the profession for you?

I studied hard at school but it was always obvious to me that if I could spend my life in the game then I would. I started to practise at the age of nine but because I came from such a small village I didn’t have my first coach until I was 19. I thought it was just a dream – it seemed that footballers were on another planet entirely. My parents found it difficult to accept that their son, who worked so hard in school, could go to work in football. Back then, football was not a job for serious people. They wanted me to become a lawyer or a doctor or something like that. I needed to fight to convince my parents. Fortunately, I’ve finally managed to get myself a decent career [laughs]. I’ve heard that you play down your ability as a footballer and were actually better that you say.

What kind of player were you?
I wasn’t an international but I played at the top level in France [winning Ligue 1 with RC Strasbourg in 1979]. Sometimes I think, ‘If I had the conditions of the modern players, how good would I have been?’ I don’t know. I came very late to the game but the most influential guy, my coach Max Hild [at AS Mutzig], has said I was quite a decent player. I was first a striker then a midfielder then finished as a centre-back so I could defend and attack at a certain level. [You’ve been compared to both Ray Parlour and Roy Keane. Is that a fair comparison?] I would be happy to be both!

Were you one of those players who was always destined for management? Did you take notes during team-talks?

I didn’t necessarily think so at the time because I didn’t know whether I would be good enough. But I always got on well with my coaches and they with me because we shared a passion. I would drive 600 miles to look for decent players. Sometimes I would arrive two hours before the game started and stand behind the goal in the rain and then drive home the same night. What people don’t know is that when I was a young coach of 31 at the Strasbourg academy, I was coach, scout, physio, captain… everything. It was a fantastic education.

You, Sven, Jose, Sir Alex… do you think there’s any advantage in going into football management after a less-than glittering playing career?

[Looks a little put out at this description of his playing career] Certainly, because you have a little bit of frustration from your career and that can help the motivation. I did not have complete recognition as a player and maybe I felt that could be forgotten. It’s difficult to say, but I’m tempted to say yes.

Given your track record, did you find it odd that no one in England seemed to know who you were when you arrived at Highbury? What did you think when you saw headlines like ‘Arsene Who?’

I could understand the public not knowing who I was but I was surprised the specialists didn’t. I’d taken Monaco to the Cup Winners’ Cup final [in 1992], helped them to win the league [1988] and won the cup three times [1989,1990,1991]. But it didn’t bother me much because at the end of the day that meant they had low expectations of me [laughs]. Were you aware that Arsenal were known throughout the country as ‘Boring, Boring Arsenal’?

How easy was it for you to change that culture and introduce your own?

Yes, I was aware of Arsenal’s reputation and so I brought my changes in slowly and patiently. After all, I had inherited a good team. There’s always a risk if you don’t start well that you won’t be accepted. That’s why I started cautiously; I knew I had to win games to convince the players. I remember you played three at the back for a while when you first arrived at Arsenal.

What was your thinking behind this? Had you not heard of the ‘Famous Back Four’?

I had heard but when I arrived they were already playing that system. We had three very intelligent central defenders in Martin Keown, Steve Bould and Tony Adams and they were quite happy with it. I didn’t like the system but I thought I’d leave it to the end of the season because to change it I needed to change the players.

You’re known for changing the dietary habits of Arsenal’s players. But is there any unhealthy British speciality you’re a bit partial to? Fish and chips, roast beef and Yorkshire puddings, steak and kidney pie, apple crumble and custard?

Fish and chips not so much, but Christmas pudding, yes! I like pies. Cherry pie, apple pie, with ice cream. I like a lot of things that are not good for you. But I always find it stupid that a player can practise the whole week and then spoil his game because he eats something silly 24 hours before. I remember my first day at Arsenal when we were travelling to Blackburn and the players were at the back of our bus chanting, ‘We want our Mars Bars!’ [laughs] They used to eat them before the game but I took them away. Sure, it doesn’t guarantee you win the game, but it means the guy with a sensitive liver doesn’t have his preparations ruined. Food is like kerosene. If you put the wrong one in your car, it’s not as quick as it should be.

You’re brilliant at improving players, but what exactly do you do with individuals to make them better? Does it always involve giving them a new position? Lewis Warner, Kensington I believe that for a player to develop in the long term they can only play in a position
where they have the necessary qualities. So I analyse the players physiologically and psychologically, looking at their strengths and weaknesses, then I try to choose their best position according to their profiles. Which players are you most proud of in terms of your role in improving them? Peter Boyle, via e-mail We made so many stars and I’m proud of all of them: Thuram, Petit, Henry, Vieira. Perhaps it’s George Weah, though. When we brought him from Africa to Monaco [in 1988], people were laughing at him – and then he became FIFA World Player of the Year [in1995]. You’ve picked up some hidden gems in the transfer market, but are there any players you passed on who went on to become great? George Dixon, Sheffield Of course, you do make mistakes in this job and you can’t take everybody. I missed some players like Makelele and Eto’o. I also let some players go who I knew would make a career, like [Fabrice] Muamba, Steve Sidwell and [Sebastian]Larsson, but in the end I had to make a choice whether they could play for me or not. Sometimes you’re too hard but most of the time it’s because the guy doesn’t have the necessary quality or motivation. Which one player from a rival Premier League team over the years would you really have loved to have had in your side? Lara Dixon, Glasgow There are plenty! But at the moment there is not one that I would have in my side because I love the team I have. What do you think is your biggest achievement at Arsenal? Do you think there are any other records that you would like to break in your career? Alex Billingham, Barrow-in-Furness Going the whole season unbeaten because it’s the most difficult thing to do. You go to Newcastle in November, to Portsmouth in October maybe, and on January 1st you go to Sheffield United on a dark night where everything is against you and you still cannot lose a game. I think that’s fantastic. There is one record I’d like to break this season but I won’t talk to you about that now – come back at the end of the season [laughs]. Arsenal fans are renowned for their lack of vocal support for their team. Does it ever bother you or the players? Jamie Dawson, Camden No, I’ve always though that the inspiration should come not from the crowd but from the team. It’s their responsibility to get the crowd going. As an advocate of attacking, attractive football you’ve been critical of teams like Blackburn who employ defensive tactics against you. So why were you so defensive against Manchester United in the 2005 FA Cup final? Guy Palmer, Batley I must say I was completely surprised by the domination of Man United. We had an off-day, completely. In the end I thought ‘Do they not want to win it?’ Man United were so hungry that we were completely dominated. But I didn’t play defensively on purpose. I thought we had no chance. We had no Thierry Henry and played Dennis Bergkamp up front with a 4-3-2 formation behind him with Patrick Vieira, Fabregas and Gilberto in midfield. When we finally won it, I was happy of course but also frustrated because that is not the way we want to play football. In hindsight, should you have sold Vieira and Henry a season earlier? You’d have got more money for them… David Thackeray, St Ives People thought they were massive mistakes but in terms of Patrick Vieira, I thought we had a fantastic offer from Juventus. At the time, he was 29, had played nine years for Arsenal and they offered him a five-year contract. I was not sure we could match that and I didn’t want to block that possibility for him. Regarding Thierry Henry, we had just moved into the new stadium and we didn’t know if we could fill it. He was the figurehead – so what kind of signal does it send out if you move into a new stadium and sell your best player? The next year he asked me to let him go and, of course, I could have stopped him but I felt that after a guy’s played for you for eight years, if he wants to go it’s difficult to stop him. But going back to the question, we had to try and balance out the timing of when we let Vieira and Henry go because so many influential players had already left the Arsenal dressing room during that period: Pires, Bergkamp, Campbell, Cole. When you lose all that experience it has a big impact on the rest of the players. You look at who’s around you for reassurance when you are going to a big game and then suddenly there is nobody there anymore. Your signings suggest you don’t think young English players are good enough for Arsenal. What changes would you make to the system to improve the development of English players? Peter Wolfe, Toxteth England wasted too much time but I think the changes I would like to see have now been made. By that I mean, when it comes to young English players, you need to detect them, select them, target the work and then integrate them into the teams. But the response needs a bit of patience as it takes time. Working with a youth team for one year doesn’t automatically get you good players – they need five, six, seven years to develop. At Arsenal we have English U17 players who are fantastic. Believe me, the’re really good. You can already see the improvement in terms of the results of England’s U17 and U19 teams. There are one or two players who really could be stars of the modern game for England. But I can’t give you their names because I don’t want to ruin the possibility of getting them here at Arsenal! The papers make a big deal out of the mind games managers supposedly play on each other. Has anyone in particular got under your skin or is it all in the minds of the tabloid hacks? Pete Biskind, Welwyn Garden City I get annoyed by statements made by managers, by pressure on referees before a game or reactions after the game. And yes, I do sometimes get annoyed with Ferguson, just like he gets annoyed with me – but that’s part of the game and part of the entertainment. I don’t believe you can compete at this level of competition and be friends. But there’s no bad feeling, you know. Do I enjoy the mind games? Yes I do, it makes life interesting. Does it devalue the work of the manager if they have unlimited resources to work with? Or is it a fallacy that you can ‘buy’ the Premier League title? Martin Gordon, Newcastle No, it doesn’t devalue it, but it makes the work easier. You still need to be good to be successful. I don’t believe you can buy the Premier League. Chelsea already had a good team under Ranieri and had challenged us a lot in 2004. When Abramovich came in, he stopped the team from dying because they were near bankrupt – and he gave them the manager who could make them more successful. But you cannot from one day to the next just buy success, that’s not possible. You have to build a team as well. The great managers – Chapman, Shankly, Ferguson – are men who have built not one great team but two, three, four… How do you go about rebuilding a team? Does it start with the players? Or with a formation? Or a way of playing? Luke Marsh, Crouch End At Arsenal we’ve done it in different ways, but the last team was built by bringing in some young players, trying to give them the culture of the football we want to play and developing them. That’s the best way because when people grow up together there’s always something more in the side – that’s very important because sometimes you have just a fraction of a second to guess where your partner is, and if you’ve played together for a long time it’s a bit easier. So, I believe, it is achieved through managerial stability, a consistent style of play and by keeping your players together for a long time. Be honest, as you went into pre-season, did you really expect Arsenal to start the season as well as they have done? What’s changed from last year? Mark Chester, Bushey I expected us to start well. I knew the way we started the season would be very important because we weren’t very convincing last year and so did not have much belief. I felt that the team needed to build that – and the only way to do so was to start well. In fairness, I felt in pre-season that they had solved the frustration of last year and had a kind of revenge in their heads. But we won’t know if we’re good enough until May. This year, the players have grown in maturity and mental consistency. Sometimes you need to suffer a little to realise that life is not easy; this is a career for tough people. You must be ready to fight to be successful. Were you worried how you would cope without Thierry Henry? Do you think Arsenal are now stronger without him? Brian Levinger, Salford I don’t think so because we lost a worldclass player, but when you have a player of his importance with such a young team the play was always going to go through him. When he wanted the ball, he got the ball. Now he’s not there anymore, everybody has to take the initiative and express themselves a little bit more. Are you relieved that Jose Mourihno has left town? Paul Zweig, Salford It was a complete surprise as it came after the first difficult spell Chelsea have had. I still don’t really know why he left but it wasn’t a relief. I thought it would have been much more interesting this season if he had stayed. Given Chelsea’s cash, Man United’s resurgence and the loss of Thierry Henry, would winning the Premier League this season be your greatest achievement ever? Sean Robinson, via email I don’t know. I’m here to win; I’ll let others judge what has been my greatest achievement. You appear to be a person of strong morals – you have never broken a contract. Do you feel that football has lost its moral compass or did it never have one? John Hall, Birmingham Football has a worldwide responsibility because every big game in the English Premier League is watched by 500 to 700 million people – sometimes a billion people. Imagine a kid sitting in India or in South Africa watching Wayne Rooney or Fabregas – the kind of influence these people have in the world is highly important. Also, I believe that in our countries that have such a history of war, multi-cultural teams can show a harmonious way to live and achieve things together. Sport has a responsibility on that front. I think about that a lot because had I not worked in football I would have dedicated my life to international relations. If Sepp Blatter gets his way and introduces an English quota, will it be bad for the Premiership? Bobby Marcus, Ipswich I’ll always fight fanatically against all the quota systems. I find them utter rubbish. I think that sport is just because it rewards the best. You could be my son but if you’re not good enough then you don’t play at Arsenal. You could be the son of Tony Blair, but if you’re not good enough then you don’t play at Newcastle. Sport should reward the best. If you’re good enough, my friend, you play – no matter what your name, colour or passport. You’re very calm, but occasionally your frustration spills out on the sidelines. Do you ever watch footage of yourself and think ‘Oh dear, was that really me?’ Mike Frayn, Kings Cross Yes, exactly. I’m a very passionate person who has learnt to hide my emotions but if you start a game a little on the edge it can be very easy to lose your composure. At times I’m more vulnerable than others. Sometimes I think, “Oh, that was absolutely terrible.” When you’re under pressure you’re much more vulnerable. I always say that when you see a manager interviewed on TV you can tell the exact health of his team. Outside of football what do you like doing? Gavin Gardener, Wycombe For me there is no real outside of football. I always want to watch football and because I’m in such a public job whenever I meet anyone they want to talk about football. But I don’t see it as a punishment – most of the time we talk about different aspects of the game. I like to read as well: politics, sports science and history and the occasional thriller when I’m travelling a lot. How much longer will you carry on for? Will we see you on the training pitch in your seventies like Bobby Robson? Terry Thomas, Liverpool That depends on my health, how well I do, and my desire. You need an animal-like force within you; a vital desire to win. I don’t have a problem now but the time may come. When you were linked with the England job in 2000, you were quoted as saying a foreigner shouldn’t be in charge of the national team. Is this still your belief, or do you think the climate in football has changed since? In other words, would you ever manage England (please!)? David Freeman, Bristol No. For a big country you need a manager from the same country. England created the game. I remember Sven-Göran Eriksson playing against Sweden with England. The national anthem is played and what do you do? [Wry smile] It shows you’re not completely comfortable. If I’m England manager and I play France which anthem do I sing? I manage in England and I hope I can help English football but the national team should be managed by an English guy. I read that you’re not a great fan of international football. Why? Darren Winter, Beaconsfield I’m not a big fan of international football because they destroyed it. Take Russia: once it was one country and now it’s 21. Yugoslavia was one and now is six. As a result the level has dropped. Then you add countries like Andorra, Faroe Islands and San Marino and suddenly three games out of four are of no interest. When you think of international football you think that it’s a level up but 99 percent of the time it’s a level down. That’s why I prefer club football. The World Cup winners are all from countries with a minimum of 50 million people. Ryan Giggs never played at a World Cup finals. If Maradona had been born in Luxemburg he’d never have played in a World Cup – but he’d still have been the best player in the world. In club football you get to put the best players in the world together. That is real justice. If you could change one rule in football, what would it be? Laura Hind, Brixton [Whistles at the size of task] I would change many things but the first rule would be that only the captain should speak to the referee. When you have a billion people watching a game and you can read the lips of a player saying “You’re fucking rubbish” to a referee it does nothing for our game. Changing that rule would have a more positive effect than all the charities we do at the clubs. You made me laugh with your comment about everybody thinking they have the most beautiful wife at home [Wenger interjects: “Because those who don’t made a mistake on the day they married”]. Who or what makes you laugh? Mr Bean? Inspector Clouseau? Shakespeare? Patrick Alvarez, Kirkby Clouseau makes me laugh, Mr Bean as well. I like verbal comedy but in English I don’t understand it all. In French I love the subtlety of language. Coluche [French comedian and political satirist] was fantastic but he died in a motorbike accident and since then nobody has replaced him. Have you ever considered who your successor at Arsenal might be? Bazza Andrews, Highbury I’ve thought about it but it’s not necessarily my responsibility unless the board ask my opinion. [FFT: Tony Adams?] He’s one of the people who could go for the job, but at some stage he has to start to manage – to learn the responsibility of the job. What things have you learnt from other great managers? Ben Fenert, Cornwall I always try to read what they said or the way they worked. The greats are simple where others are complicated and can sum up in one sentence what others work on for 15 days. If I have one quality in my life, it’s that I’ve always listened to people with much more experience than me. That helped me a lot in my life – it helps you gain time because they know what’s important. When you’re young you spend too long worrying about things that aren’t important: with every little spot you think I won’t go out because nobody will dance with me [laughs]. But when you’re 45 you don’t care. You go out and enjoy your time.

Arsene Wenger talked to me courtesy of Nike. Thank you Nike.