Agree with it all especially about English players not wanting to try out other leagues. Foreign players make the premiership look good. Say what you want about ronaldo and balotelli and others but they came over at a very young age and are better for it. Not known any English to go abroad at 20.

who does this guy think he is brazil may have won more world cups than england but he does not understand that more developed countries have more to do as kids than begging and kicking footballs on the beach the incentive for poor countries is to get out of the ghettos and eat , why if brazillian football is so good does all the money stream into the english league and not the brazillian league , thats because the product is so good and international football is behind the cream of european clubs that can choose the best 11 not 1 or 2 superstars and 8 or 9 average players the champions league produces the best quality football now and that means a mix of all countries, the world cup in brazil will be boring the climate to hot and no doubt it will be won by a south american team diving and cheating the refferees we already know the outcome.

All fair comment!

We're shit, and we know we are.

Can't argue with one bit of that. And until our national team stops playing like a a very well paid Championship side, nothing will change.

the only fans more delusional than england's are brazilians, they currently have the most average brazil side in decades that contains a load of water carries (i.e lucas), lightweights (like robinho) and boys who think they're all that without having achieved all that much yet.

@anon they're still way better than England and would have a much better chance of progressing in any tournament.

How long you been living here? We know we are fucking shit - part of following England is accepting this but simultaneously ignoring it. This successfully winds the rest of the world up. To paraphrase that horrible Deptford lot:No one likes us. We don't care.

To be fair, most England fans know our players are over paid, over hyped shite, it's the media/press mob that bull both the players and England up.. For years I have watched England get dominated in the possession count but they are usually big enough, strong enough, fast enough and organised enough to rob most teams, until they hit the quality sides. It would seem that this keeps the FA, press and some fans happy but most are not fooled so easily. How the press lauded the, yet again unlucky brave Lions this weekend...well if nothing changes the press will continue to laud unlucky Lions for a long time.

Of course we're shit, the thing is, we're England. The best fucking shit team in the World, no one can touch us on that one, no one.

Got to take exception with the defenders point. We can't seem to create techincal attacking players but we can make a good defender. I would argue that Sol Campbell, Rio Ferdinand, John Terry and Ashley Cole are all World Class defenders.

Oh, I see. So it's OK for every other qualifying nation to enjoy the tournament, get behind their team and maybe get a bit carried away when things begin to go their way, but not England? Mauticio, imagine you're English for a moment. Your country has topped the group, and face Italy in the quarters. Do you look forward to the game and get a bit excited? Or do you admonish yourself for being so arrogant as to even entertain such fanciful notions of victory and refuse to watch? Perhaps lock yourself in a darkened room away from the Carling swilling folly of your compatriots? You wouldn't want to be one of those 'guys' that 'suck' (Did your Dad really invent Beavis and Butthead in 1986. In Brazil?), would you? Contrary to popular myth making, the English do not always 'think they're going to win'. In the aftermath of every elimination, the country is not full of bitter, broken men wailing 'we're out, OUT...and I put my fucking house on us winning the World Cup as well, now what am I gonna do?' Why don't the Welsh, Scots, Irish...and now it seems even the fucking Brazilians tell us how they'd like us to act during a tournament? We really would be all ears. Perhaps celebrating each goal with a rousing chorus of 'we know we'll probably get no further than the quarter final due to our limited technical ability'. Sends a shiver down the spine, doesn't it? It seems what's good for every other fucking nation on earth just can't be tolerated from the English!

Supporting a football team, and especially your national team, is matter of LOVE and loyalty. You don't change your love or your wife whenever you notice there is a more beautiful woman out there (maybe this Brazilian does). If you think that you have a right to ridicule a team who tried their best, played fair, and ultimately lost a game, you need to revise your understanding of both football and life.

@nick. Agree entirely. Admit you hate us because we're just, well, better than you at most things but don't try to put a football spin on it. England are just an above average international side and I think most English people accept that.

He's spot on we've been breeding limited athletic kickers for years. We play a different game here a sort o all in wrestling with a ball tossed in. look at our star players they are hopeless when they go abroad. Beckham and Owen were hopeless at Madrid, Lineker when he went to Barca was shoved on the wing out the way, Ian Rush got nowhere at Juve. Gazza was the ultimate example, exported to Italy the daft get was always injured because he was all arms and legs yet he was built up as someone akin to George Best (now there WAS a player). British football is based on booting people not skill.... but here's the rub - IT'S THE FANS FAULT!!! We won't put up with anything but boot it hard football. The latest creation is Rooney, what a woeful player he is but he's lauded here because he puts the boot in swanning round carried by a top squad at ManU. Garbage

@Paul: there is no doubt the European league is much more important than Brazilian championships, but the author was referring to the national team specifically. English players may do well at premierships - where the money indeed is - but playing as a national team (let's look at the track record here), they don't.

What a ridiculous article. First of all, no one expected England to get far in this tournament. You are just repeating the cliche of England fans getting carried away, but that is non-existant. England got to the quarter finals, which is ok, the same can be said of Brazil in the last couple of tournaments, who have only reached the quater finals of the last two world cups and copa america, does that make them shit? England have good players and will no doubt change our system for the next tournament, no one will expect us to do well in south america, but again we might suprise a few people and reach a quater or semi final, I would be happy with that, as long as there is continuing progression towards a new team. England have gone into this tournament with a massive amount of injuries and have won their group and reched the knockout stage undefeated. Holland on the other hand did not win a single game, Russia as well tipped as one of the favorites were humiliated by Greece. why don't you write an article about them

Coming from Brazil who over the past couple of tournaments have failed to leave the qauter final stage either, the same as England. Copa America is nowhere near the same quality as the Euros either. Also Brazil has nowhere near defenders the quality of Cahill, Terry and Cole.

If only you'd written this before the event. You see, I "did the math" and "put a dime" on England. Don't laugh, but I still believe we do have the players who are good enough. We just don't have...., er, I'm not sure what it is. Neither, I suspect, do you. I must admit, I didn't realise how good Pirlo is. Then again, hardly any pundits made a big noise about him. Thank goodness they're all breaking their silence now. Your analysis of France's success is illuminating. So, "France won a world cup because they had a genius like Zidane at their disposal." Thanks for that. I'm sure you're a lovely person, but your article comes across as a long sneer.

"Above average".....heh he heh! Have a word....

I don't see the point of this article. A bit of self awareness? What a joke. The press and public had extremely low expectations which were surpassed. Even the commentators were negative. Get your head out of your arse.

Thank you guys for all the comments. Just for the record: I think Brazil is hardly the fourth or fifth best national team in the world today. Even Uruguay is more solid now. But I am pretty sure no one here is saying "we have a great chance of winning at home in 2014". The same happened in 1994 and 2002. In 2006 Brazil was dead sure it could win and Zidane outclassed our team by far. We can't discuss all that in a text about England's elimination. The point is not hate at all - I find England a great country with some great things Brazil started fighting for just recently. The point, as I stated, is that English players need to play abroad, clubs need to foster home talents and fans must get more realistic. Having the richest league doesn't guarantee you'll have the best national team. Take a look at the Spanish League in the 90'ies and what Spain did in all World Cups until they had these geniuses Xavi and Iniesta. It was basically nothing. Pretty comparable to England. Thanks again for the conversation, it has been very revealing of the English soul. Hope to see you here for the World Cup.

Yeah, but, on the other hand we don't all live in a corrugated shed and spend our nights hiding from a corrupt police force. Swings and roundabouts, eh?

@Forza Italia. England are ranked 6th out of 206 members of FIFA. That's above average.

people get all jingoistic about this but look at the record we've done absolutely nothing in world football since 1966/1970. It's not a mirage it's fact, whereas Holland, Spain,Germany, italy, France even Greece and the defunct Czechoslovakia have won trophies. People are thick.

Lets hope brazil can complete contruction and preparation for the world cup and the police dont clean the streets with machine guns.

"But I am pretty sure no one here is saying "we have a great chance of winning at home in 2014" Really are you sure about that. I bet if you ran a poll on the beaches you would be surprised. And i have just got to say that no matter what team you support, you will always begine a game/championships with the belief that they can win it. Why bother otherwise. As for the title, England are 6th in the rankings, Brazil are 5th. Does that make England only a little bit shitter than Brazil????

No problem with the article, it's just another ST 'writer' stating the obvious rehash. It's come 2 years too late though. I think this is the first time in a long time that everyone associated with English football has been realistic about their chances. Nobody gave them a hope of topping the group (some even didn't think they'd qualify). Yes, they were shown up against Italy and that's where they ran out of ideas but to say as you have that everyone thought they could do it is not my experience - and I was there. Not one supporter I talked to had them down for a win. By that I'm excluding the drunken, sunburnt, bare bellied whoppers who when they see a TV camera announce to the watching world that, in their considered opinion England should win comfortably. I'm sure when they'd sobered up they'd have one of those 'Oh no I didn't did I?' moments. That said, take a TV crew along Copacabana beach and ask who'll win the world cup in 2014 and who do you think the 'experts' will say?

Why would playing abroad make a player better? You sound like a bit of a bellend pal, albeit a one place higher ranked bellend.

We're English, we do hope and blind optimism better than any other country. The only thing I find objectionable in this whole thread is the insidious racism levelled at the author for daring to have a somewhat negative opinion of England. We're the original mongrel nation, to be racist is very un-British!

Lise72, What 'insidious racism'? Can you site a single incidence of anyone being racist on this thread? We're all a bit disappointed that England lost a football match. What motivates you to libel us (the readers, the posters and, by implications, the moderator who allowed the comments to go up) as racists? Can't we enjoy any activity, even an innocent pastime like an England football post mortem, without someone like you bringing racism onto the agenda? That's what I find objectionable.

I -and my mates, it has to be said - don't get carried away. Not any more. I used to get sucked in by it but now I just watch in abject misery. It's not because we don't and won't win anything. It's because we go about it so badly. The players aren't really interested any more, because the Champions league has taken the place of the world cup and the Euros.That's where they get their glory, their bonuses, their kudos. I remember my Grandad telling me he used to get the bus to Wolves home games and some of the players would be on the same bus. Never any trouble, just autographs and club songs. Can you imagine Rooney getting the bus to Old Trafford on a Saturday? The players must secretly despise and loathe modern football fans, and who can blame them? Why would Lampard run himself into the ground playing for an England team supported by the same West Ham fans who wish him dead when they visit Stamford Bridge?

"The Champions league has taken the place of the world cup and the Euros." The fact it is unlikely England gets another World Cup doesn't allow you to change reality, Nick. That is a very English point of view. It is no crime, but looks like a "we cherish what we can achieve" point of view, with all due respect.

Brazilian players are the undisputed champions of making like the dying swan if anyone should dare to take the ball off them. I Love making bets on which player will do the most rolls after a tackle. Such fun.

I don't think that this article is particularly relevant anymore. The English press have in the past been ridiculously optimistic about our chances and so have some of England's supporters but in the build up to and during the euros there was a definite sense of realism and most people were just pleased to reach as far as we did. I think that self awareness is there but there is also room for optimism and positivity, constant negativity won't help anyone. And to Nick - the players must despise supporters who pay their wages and without their profession would not exist?!

Divers 5 x 1 Fish and Chips.

Col - I never said footballers are rational or smart. I went with friends to see Newcastle host Man United last year. Sitting in front of me was a 14 or 15 year old girl who called Rooney a "Car Thieving Scouse C**t" whenever he touched the ball. Once you've spent a few seasons listening to that and the chants about your wife etc, surely you'd begin to become first numb and then full of loathing for the people who pay you - I know I've had bosses I've disliked, but I still took the money.

I Think Serious Problem is with the way of coaching for football in England .........U Just Select Players with Physique and Height and Stamina.......So there is no changes of getting a player with BRAIN.....Just look at Spain they are so short and Dont have build physique or Stamina but they Know How to Play Football...........FOOTBALL IS NOT About ATTACKING ALL THE TIME Its about possession and tactics NOT TO CROSS ALL THE TIME LIKE SHIT.......IF u ATTACK ALL the Time u will lose energy and easily get beaten thats what happens for england everytime...

Look at the rankings now haha. Brazil are 18th.

And they surely deserve to be. Which doesn't change the point of the copy above, does it?

Well. This proved correct... ;-)

To be honest. First, if it weren't for the money your club teams would suck big time, and only because of the bought foreigners they are successful. Secondly, and related to the first issue, English clubs teams don't create a breeding ground in which young talented players can thrive. Lastly, tactics. Your football team plays offensive, but doesn't have the quality players to do so. So naturally you're going to suck because of the amount of space your team gives to its opponents. It's quite clear for outsiders why your team sucks. It's probably your pride that obstrucs you to do so. End of story.

English players lack dribbling and technical ability which helps them get out of tricky situations and maintain possession. The midfield needs technical players, Gerrard and Lampard score a lot of goals but they're not good enough at keeping possesion and playing killer throughballs. England have produced great defenders in the past 15 years but cannot produce attacking midfielders or forwards with skill and unpredictability.