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An Everton Fan On Why Scousers Hate The National Team
Englishness has nothing to do with life in Liverpool and has more to do with the lives of the people who are happy for the city to suffer and then probably laugh as the media portrays us as thieves and scumbags.
Long ago, whilst at university, I spent a dismal and difficult ten minutes trying to explain my lack of regard for the England national side to a friend of my housemate’s. Granted, he was a bit of a ‘rah’, hardly the sharpest tool in the box (although certainly a tool) and at times my incomprehensible scouse accent might also have played a part, but the poor sod just couldn’t understand what I was talking about.
The idea of being devoid of ‘national pride’ was foreign to him. But he’s not alone. This broad-faced, rugby-shirt wearing, walking justification for punitive taxation on the rich was merely the first of many blank faces I have encountered on this subject since leaving the safe cocoon of my home by the Mersey.
Growing up in Liverpool, the England side was a negligible presence in my life. I was aware of them but they were of no real consequence. Club always came before country both in our house and amongst the other many Evertonians that we knew.
For us, the England side was made up of players from teams that weren’t Everton, including our loathed neighbours, and so it was impossible for us to support them.
And to me that made sense. There’s no point thinking that Phil Neal and Terry McDermott were evil Liverpool tools one week and then rooting for them the next, just because they happen to be temporarily playing for a different team. Any player that wasn’t on Everton’s books was a threat to the club (red-shite’s being the more extreme end of the spectrum) and therefore not to be supported.
The logical conclusion to this was that if an England side devoid of Everton players happened to be playing a team that contained just one Everton player then our support went to the latter.
When the country collectively mourns its many years of hurt, I shrug indifferently and return my attention to the fortunes of Everton
During the mid-eighties, things got a bit difficult when Everton turned brilliant. Suddenly England were all over us like a rash. At the 1986 World Cup we had four players in the squad, four players who regularly made the first team. It’s no coincidence that this is the only World Cup where I have any recollection of the England games. But even then, my sole concern was the performance of the Everton players and not England’s progression.
As the English game has become more open to foreign nationals I’ve found that when qualifiers and tournaments take place my loyalties have spanned the globe. In the last World Cup alone, I became a follower of South Africa (Steven Pienaar), Holland (John Heitinga), USA (Tim Howard), Australia (Tim Cahill) and Nigeria (Yakubu).
But rarely England. When the country collectively mourns its many years of hurt, I shrug indifferently and return my attention to the fortunes of Everton, a team that actually matter and whose decades of hurt mean much more to me.
I’ve heard all the arguments against my position. Don’t you love your country? How can you support a bunch of foreigners over your own boys? Are you some kind of Communist?
In mitigation let me offer this: patriotism never really caught on in Liverpool. We don’t go in for flag waving, the vast majority of us would happily see the Queen kicked out on her arse and stirring renditions of Jerusalem leave most of us unmoved.
According to my dad it’s something to do with the city looking out to sea rather than inwards. Liverpool was once a great Atlantic port, a commercial hub that had links with every corner of the globe. It made us think internationally, severing that all important connection with the rest of the country.
For many of us the notion of ‘England’ has become tied in with a certain section of society, namely little-Englanders.
Although there’s an element of truth to this, I think that to really understand our indifference to patriotism you also have to take into account the city’s experiences over the last thirty years. For many of us the notion of ‘England’ has become tied in with a certain section of society, namely little-Englanders.
The kind of people who successively put the Tories in power and then watch as Liverpool gets hit, accepting that it’s a price worth paying for a few more quid in their back pockets. Horribly stereotypical I know, but hard to avoid.
As the notion of ‘England’ has come to the fore, strengthened in recent years by the gradual erosion of a unified ‘Britain’, it is their interpretation of being ‘English’ that has become dominant; warm beer in a country pub, cricket on the village green, a yellowing jigsaw box in a post-office window.
That version of ‘Englishness’ leaves us cold. It has nothing to do with life in Liverpool and has more to do with the lives of the people who are happy for the city to suffer and then probably laugh as the media portrays us as thieves and scumbags.
The result is that the patriotism gene never kicks in, there’s nothing there to override our own narrow, partisan interests. For us, it’s patriotism and not its absence that’s foreign. And so, Everton always come first, second and third. Loyalties can never be divided and it’s ridiculous to think otherwise.
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COMMENTS
Jim, maybe it's not so much of a Liverpool thing as you state. My feelings regards the club/country thing are exactly the same as yours it's geographically where we differ hugely. I'm an Irish/Welsh but born in Wimbledon Chelsea supporter from Surrey now exiled in Milton Keynes. At a guess I'd say that our surnames tell their own tale.
I have noticed the same among several friends/family from the North West, people who are Mancunians, Boltonians. Could it be that the national team is still viewed as a distant and alien preserve of London? And what would happen if the North West of England had a representative team? Would we get behind it or would it be riven by parochial rivalries?
England come second(a distant second very often) to most people after their club team, you aren't special or different just because you're a scouser. It speaks volumes that you'll say you supported South Africa at the world cup(because of Pienaar) etc. And yet an England team with the likes of Jagielka and Baines, get nothing but a passing interest in their own performances in the shirt. Dont get me wrong, i do understand the basis of your argument. I have great difficulty supporting some of the scum who make up the England team nowadays, and i find it nigh on impossible to back the likes of Terry, especially when he's spend the previous week acting like a cock on his last visit to my club ground. But i still support the team, if not all the players wearing the shirt. So even though i'll never feel the passion i do for my club team(Italia '90 aside), i still want us to do well. Why play the martyr and miss out on that.
You're right - horribly stereotypical, more than a tad parochial and absolute bollocks.
GUBU - go drown in your own verbal. The guy is bang on - even if his is a Toffee supporter. As a rabid Red I know exactly what he means. Whenever the London Mafia dish out their team sheet I pray that LFC players aren't there because (a) England couldn't give a rats arse for any thing further north than Boris Johnson's wig and (b) I don't want our players getting played out of position and crocked. And before the self righteous get all self righteous, if any "Johnny Foreigner" type invaded our green and pleasant I'd be one of the first to try to hand him his bollocks on a plate, old and knackered as I am. But footie to a Northerner - and Scousers in particular - has nothing to do with love of folk and fatherland.And lets face it, who the fuck wants to be associated with a racist twat like Terry? Now there's a guy who really isn't fit to wear the shirt.
Spot on fella,....GUBU aren't you going to be late for your Young Tories meeting?
totaly agree, can't remember exactly which wembley final between everton and the shite it was, but the whole ground united in booing the national anthem.
It's exactly the same here in Manchester even more so for United fans. One week your calling Rooney a fat granny shagging bastard then all of a sudden you are behind him like he's one of you? I have never forgiven England fans for the way they treated Beckham after 98. You can shove your West Ham United England flags up your arse.
I love it !! This is what saturday mornings are all about.
I don't think it's an "outside London" thing at all. I live in London, support a London team, and feel pretty much the same. The only thing I'd add is that it's definitely worth highlighting the FA's insistence on "Putting the England team first" even though I suspect a majority of fans would rather they concentrated on issues directly affecting us, especially ticket prices. The EPPP travesty, for example, is being foisted on us because it's "good for the national team".
As a Stoke fan I find my attitude towards the England team veers from mild interest to antipathy - the latter for as long as John Terry is selected. More interested in the Republic at the moment with Whelan and Walters playing for them.
This view is not only exclusive to outside-Londoners or even people from England. I'm from Singapore and people here support English clubs way more passionately than our own national team. Another apt example is how most Catalans view the Spanish national team with indifference. They do not even count themselves Spanish.
Stick - you may b ea Scum fan but you're a Scum fan who talks a lot of sense... The list of hits on Northern players or players in the England shirt from Northern teams is staggering. At least you know where you stand with other fans (usually in the shite, but there you go) but the southern press... Simon Cowell wannabes. talentless shit stirring A listed A holes... on a good day. Rant over... for now.
I suppose if we had a local derby to feed my parochialism, or a local team that was interesting/ watchable, I wouldn't care so much about our national side. But that's all I've got. I understand your position, but would miss out on the national drama when my team chokes, when there are flashes of brilliance followed by huge swaths of pathetic suckage, when we get to match up against the best and fall short. I must say I enjoy the English, who pack the pubs and sing the loudest, but that's because I'm not English, nor busy trying to determine the social pecking order of my peers whilst watching England play. I get to just watch and drink, and I'm good with that.
What a bunch of miserable bastards- Everton spend their life treading water in mid table mediocrity; working out which player to sacrifice next to pay the gas bill, hey but as long as you beat the Reds then everything is else is fine and dandy. Isn’t being a premier league fan the best. Small town team, Small town minds
London FC
ENNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAANDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!! We beat the best team in the world without Rooney, A Young or Wilshere...Well done to the boys from Everton, Man City, Liverpool, Man United appreciate your Northern contribution...If only we had a mentality to match the talent we actually have..instead of being miserable negative northern cunts.
Yorkshire first, second, last everything. England? Only ever gets mentioned when I'm abroad.
The pubs in liverpool were rammed when england were in in world cup...loads of toffees are into the england team....harris a proud england and toffee fan
Evertonians: teaching the world to be bitter for over 100 years.
We don't need England cos we're so special, wherever we go no-one can undersatnd our accent, but you always know when a scousers next to you (or maybe it's someone opening a bag of crisps), and lets not forget how much funnier than the rest of England we are, check out Jimmy Tarbuck and Ken Dodd, no, they really are funny, it's just that you English can't understand them cos we're so special, we're like Rangers and Celtic but specialler,we should swap leagues so maybe we could win something now and again, did I mention how special we are?
Feel free to leave at any time kev.
To TOP HATTER :Everton have not spent their lives treading water although the SKY generation probably think so.For the record:9 league titles:5 F.A cups and a European trophy:4th most successful club since English football began.Don't know who Top Hatter supports but sounds like Luton - Hmmmm
Totally agree with the piece and to Varkko we've only been bitter since 1985 lad so lets not exaggerate
I think it's more of a political thing than a regional thing. I would imagine a lot of left-leaning people find the type of person that attaches themselves to following England exibits traits that we find embarrassing in our fellow countrymen. Xenophobia, Little-Englander, Jingoistic, Billy Britain, U Jack short wearing teds. For myself, growing up in London I used to go and watch England matches quite regualrly at Wembley, even the odd schoolboys match. After a while I twigged they were terminally dull, 0-0 draw after 0-0 draw and then a long, long wait for an 83 bus back to Ealing I realised this was not for me. There's some truth to the sneering that fans of bigger clubs that following England abroad is a way for fans of 'no-mark clubs' to experience seeing a side in Europe etc. I know lads who follow my team who do it and to a man they all have a great craic and are not the sort of idiots I mentioned above. But I just can't get excited about England, I wouldn't swap a World Cup win for a regulation win for my team in any competition. However I would preach to anyone who does get off on International Football, bar the phoney Talksport whoppers.
"wouldn't" rather than "would preach" obviously.
good article and point well made, up to a point. Liverpool is not special in any way shape or form other than scousers thinking they're special, that's where it starts but never seems to end.
Dylan Jackson: Point accepted- Everton have the League, FA Cup and a now defunct European Trophy- however the last major honour was over 16 Years ago; The league win was 24 years ago; effectively a whole generation of fans have grown up since then; Do you think your current performance, ground and owner match that of a Big Club or a Mid table Side in long term decline. How would you describe the Toffee's in the cold light of day?
To Top Hatter:I did mention the Sky generation in my comment as there has been an obsession with the"top four"for years.This however should not dilute Everton's long,proud and successful history.Of course,no Evertonian is happy with our present position simply because we deserve better and it does not take much (i.e.appropriate investment!)to transform fortunes.Look at Chelsea and Man.City who were nowhere near as successful as Everton until their respective benefactors came to rescue them from mediocraty.That is the reality or "cold light of day"as you put it.
Dylan Jackson, why do you 'deserve better', you deluded little woolyback helmet?
Oh dear - here's Little Ted
Eddie Honda:not much of a constructive comment unless you think being abusive counts as intelligence in the narrow world you inhabit.Everyone feels they deserve more, especially when they have experienced better days.Incidentially,none of the words you have directed at me are applicable,even remotely.
Agreed as at 'A'. Also let's have a 'Republic of Merseyside'.... excluding the Wirral of course!
So you're a bitter Everton fan then, big shocker!
Hi am from lpool and a red but the blue shite right what he says I have no interest of England.as far as am concerned were not English were scouse
Fuck it. It's only England.
Still laughing at 'deluded little woolyback helmet'. Tickled me that one.
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